Ignition and Other hard starting fun - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Full Size Jeep Forum > Ignition and Other hard starting fun

WJ Shackle Tabs: Tow-Hook Replacements2014 Spartan Locker Special - While Supplies Last! Dana 3FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 10-05-2013, 01:57 AM   #1
Renodemona
Registered User
1976 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 133
Ignition and Other hard starting fun

Greetings!
After running great for a couple weeks, Susan ('76 Cherokee w/360) has decided that starting is out of the question. Haven't sunk to starting fluid yet, though am probably going to have to. I have a motorcraft ignition, would swapping it out for something else be something to do? If so, with what? I have a 4-barrel carb on now and a 2-barrel that I can swap on. Do the 2-barrels seem to work a bit better for starting? Obviously I haven't had the truck very long so I have no idea what (if anything) else is contributing to the problem. Thoughts and ideas are welcomed!

Renodemona is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-05-2013, 05:20 AM   #2
SIUADOG
Registered User
1988 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Loganville, Georgia
Posts: 39
One possiblity is that the fuel pump diaphragm is leaking and allowing the fuel to run back into the tank. How long does it sit?
I went through half a can of starter fluid before finally replacing the mechanical pump. No issues now.
SIUADOG is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-05-2013, 11:31 AM   #3
pleontks
Registered User
1976 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Whetstone, Az
Posts: 1,130
You have the motorcraft Duralast ignition? Your rig would've come with the prestolite ignition, with the plastic vacuum diaphragms on the base of the carb.

If you listen closely while operating the throttle by hand, you should be able to hear whether or not the gas is shooting into the carb.

Check for spark.

If no gas, goes back along the line until you find the problem. Probably, as siuadog stated, it's the fuel pump.

If no spark, it's probably the duralast box. They go out randomly.

2barrell vs 4 barrell will not affect starting. An improperly set choke will affect starting, but not prevent it.

My rig now has msd ignition, elec fuel pump, and quadrajet 4barrell
__________________
Beauty is in the eye of the jeepowner.
pleontks is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-10-2013, 12:46 PM   #4
super98lsc
Web Wheeler
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,414
A properly tuned 4 barrel will also yield better fuel economy and slightly better torque and response in low speed driving, naturally if you floor it and all 4 are open wide it will get worse mileage but make more power.
Another item to check (at least what I found on mine shortly after purchasing it) was the rubber sections of fuel line that are on top of the tank coming off the fuel sending/pickup that attach to the metal lines were so dry rotten that they had enough porosity to allow air to suck in with the fuel eventually getting to the point where the fuel pump could no longer siphon up the fuel from the tank. Then a second section of rubber that joins the front/rear metal lines right near the T-Case was also done for. With all the alcohol in the fuel today rubber lines just do not last long. Hit up a race shop for PTFE (Teflon) lines if you want to never change them again, or just get used to swapping them every 2-3 years. The other thing I found on mine was the fuel sock/pickup in the tank was toast. This caused it not to use the last 5 gallons of the tank at all. Literally ended up walking one day even though we had over 1/4 tank on the gauge. I went and got a small 2 gal can filled it up walked back and it primed and fired right up.

Naturally check the pump which is fairly simple you can pull off the fuel feed line and connect a rubber hose from the pump to a small jar/can of fuel and have someone turn it over. If it draws up the fuel quickly and fires up then you know its something downstream to the tank.

When I put the built 401 back in I am going with an electric pump on mine like Pleontks did. I have found that most carbs like to boil off the leftover fuel in the float bowls overnight or after sitting for an hour or 2 when hot. Especially here in Texas when its 110 deg 3-4 months of the year. The electric pump will refill the bowl as soon as you turn the key providing much quicker starts. For a carb application do not go out and buy the biggest most obnoxious electric pump you can find. A low pressure decent volume quiet pump is all you need, I run my setups with a regulator and return line to keep the fuel circulating and cooler.
__________________
www.mangierisrc.com
06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
super98lsc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #5
SIUADOG
Registered User
1988 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Loganville, Georgia
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by super98lsc View Post
Another item to check (at least what I found on mine shortly after purchasing it) was the rubber sections of fuel line that are on top of the tank coming off the fuel sending/pickup that attach to the metal lines were so dry rotten that they had enough porosity to allow air to suck in with the fuel eventually getting to the point where the fuel pump could no longer siphon up the fuel from the tank.
Easily overlooked, often neglected....

SIUADOG is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-14-2013, 09:07 PM   #6
Gante
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 173
I may be having the same problem with my 1991 Grand Wagoneer. At times it is difficult to get it to start... As if the carb is dry. It sounds that you guys prefer the electric fuel pump. How difficult is it to install and what brand would you guys recommend?
Gante is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #7
Renodemona
Registered User
1976 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 133
Thanks for the help guys! Just got back home after a couple weeks away and am going to be working on Susan a bit the next few days. The ignition (or what I assume is the ignition) is a blue box bolted to the passenger's side wheel cutout that says "motorcraft" then "regulator" (or "regulation" it is pretty worn) then a number starting 3277. There is an empty metal tab on the driver's side fender wall with a square-ish spot of un-worn paint that I'd guess used to hold some kind of engine item. The fuel lines in the engine bay are a little worn, but not terrible. They are marked as 5/16" does that sound like the correct size? Also there is some funky metal canister with a 't' coming off of it just free-floating and currently resting on top of the valve cover. Is this the fuel filter assembly? I'm guessing it goes somewhere else? I'll put a photo up in a bit. Then it's off to grab some new clamps and fuel hose!
Renodemona is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #8
Renodemona
Registered User
1976 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 133
Here are the photos.
img_0926.jpg   img_0927.jpg   img_0928.jpg  
Renodemona is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-15-2013, 07:31 PM   #9
pleontks
Registered User
1976 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Whetstone, Az
Posts: 1,130
blue box is voltage regulator.

canister with 3 hoses is fuel filter. and it appears to be backwards.
__________________
Beauty is in the eye of the jeepowner.
pleontks is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-15-2013, 08:35 PM   #10
cometthedog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 194
I just replaced my ignition module. Its located on the left, drivers side, it is silver aluminum. Has two pig tails coming off it, one is a four prong and the other a two. Very simple to r and r. My local oriellys was able to test mine.
cometthedog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-15-2013, 09:40 PM   #11
Renodemona
Registered User
1976 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 133
Backwards fuel filter? Sweet. So the side with 2 ports goes towards the carb?
In related carb news, should both flaps be closed down when the engine is cold? Seems like a silly questions, but the rear flap is closed and attached to some springs and the front flap is open and just kind of hangs there. It is not attached to any springs, however it does have a little linkage that it can attach to but seems to be missing a retaining clip. I re-attached this linkage and put a retaining pin on. Photos coming! Please excuse silly questions, it seems the more I dig into this beast the more interesting things I seem to be finding...
Renodemona is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-15-2013, 09:53 PM   #12
cometthedog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 194
The filter end with the two tubes should be facing the carb and the tubes should be vertical with b the outer most tube being on the top.
cometthedog is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-16-2013, 10:06 PM   #13
Renodemona
Registered User
1976 FSJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 133
OK, some new fuel line in the engine bay and correctly oriented filter. Ignition module was tested at Oreily's and was fine. Pumping the accelerator does now squirt fuel. Got the other choke plate attached. Of course when all that was done and errands run it's a little late to be making a bunch of racket for the neighbors to enjoy. I just want to make sure that the filter is now oriented properly. The hose from the top of the fuel pump runs to the top port of the filter, same as before, just swapped which end of the filter went to the carb. When I did that, the funky S-curve piece of metal tubing wasn't needed to align the hoses. Will see if this gets Susan started up int he afternoon!
img_0929.jpg  
Renodemona is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-17-2013, 03:18 AM   #14
RockRollin
"Positive.....I think"
 
RockRollin's Avatar
1990 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Grand Haven Mi, USA
Posts: 1,085
The fuel line from the pump should go into the inlet (single) side, the nipple offset from center (and smaller) is the bypass and should run back into the tank. The output to the carb is correct, swap the other two, the "clocking" of your filter is correct.
The ignition module cannot be reliably tested unless it is under warm, running environment.
The "other" choke plate shouldn't open unless the four barrel is opened up, it has no use until the lower secondary butterfly is opened.
__________________
"I like fun" Edd
Clawed: 90GW, TFI, Streetfire, 3"lift all spring, 31"BFG ATs, working RKE, Edel2131, Holly 1850, mild cam,
05 Renegade OME 927, 947, top plate, JBA 4.5s
RockRollin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-22-2013, 12:21 AM   #15
carnuck
Registered User
1984 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,212
put a new filter on! If you turn it around now, the crud will be pushed out to the carb! I upgrade mine to an IC12 coil (NAPA's part number for a '77 Dodge coil) with brass contact cap and as long as the choke closes cold, see if you get a full power to the "I" terminal on the solenoid while cranking. If not, the 12VDC pickup contact inside has burned off.
__________________
"Usually found in a Jeep near Reiter, WA"
FOR SALE STUFF
http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

'81 Eagle wagon with upgrades $2500
'87 Comanche shortbox 4.0/AW4/NP242 on 33" tires $3500
carnuck is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.