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Unread 06-01-2014, 02:18 PM   #1
BugsInMyTeeth
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I thought I had my hands on a set of axles for my Waggy...

I found these;

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/4489524040.html

Once I got back home I checked the BOM code. They're from a 78-79 Waggy.

I was going to trade the guy some older welding tanks and a Ruger 10/22 takedown for em. But when I got there and I started playing with the front I discovered that one of the u-joints was wasted as well as the axle bearing and seal. So I pulled the cover and only about a cup (or maybe half) of oil came out. Then I rotated the ring gear to find rust on about a dozen teeth.


So I walked away from it. I'd need to rebuild the whole thing; master rebuild kit, one or two u-joints, maybe gears and carrier, plus manual locking hubs, rotors and maybe calipers too.

My question to all you more experienced guys here at JF is;

if, and I mean IF I was to call the guy back, what do you suppose would be a descent CASH price for a good rear and a junk front axle?


edit; Sorry if I posted in the wrong section. Mods feel free to move the thread to another section.

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Last edited by BugsInMyTeeth; 06-01-2014 at 10:16 PM..
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Unread 06-02-2014, 08:54 AM   #2
CSP
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Seems like you're assuming too much. Some rust on the gearset doesn't mean it needs a master rebuild kit and gears.

Was the rust really bad? Teeth on the gearset pitted? A little bit of rust inside isn't going to hurt a thing as long as there isn't pitting and the bearings aren't damaged.

I wouldn't give $250 per axle even if there wasn't any rust though. I can see $150 tops.
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Unread 06-02-2014, 08:06 PM   #3
BugsInMyTeeth
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Thanks CSP. I could be assuming too much. I don't have much experience with this whole axle business. I've had a few 4wd trucks over the years but before I got the Waggy I knew next to nothing about em, the axles n diffs n stuff. I'm really trying to get my head wrapped around all this. I search the net and read for an hour or two every day. I have always done all my own bicycle/skateboard/dirtbike/streetbike/vehicle maintenance (plus washing machines, swampcoolers, sewing machines, and a bazillion other things) and I consider myself a fairly competent mechanic but with all this I'm wading into uncharted waters. There's a lot to know so I really appreciate the guidance and patience with the rookie questions.

The rust wasn't really that bad. No galling on any teeth that I saw. What concerned me was the indication of a lack of maintenance. It must have made a terrible noise when it was being driven around.

As far as I can tell it would need at least one u-joint, two rotors and two caliper kits. But I don't know if I'd trust it out on the trail with just the bare minimum.

edit; I just got off the phone with the guy. He came down quite a bit, but not far enough to meet what I told I was willing to pay. So I just told him to keep my number in case he changed his mind... We'll see. I'm in no hurry.
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'64 Wagoneer - 'Grampa'
'79 Wagoneer - 'Lucky'
'87 Grand Wagoneer - 'Pinky'

...these Jeeps are breedin like rabbits 'round here.

Last edited by BugsInMyTeeth; 06-02-2014 at 08:22 PM..
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Unread 06-02-2014, 10:11 PM   #4
olliehopnoodle
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Is this for Pinky or grampa?

I have a set of WT axles out of an 82 Cherokee that will be coming available soon. No good for Grampa but on Pinky they would be a little wider than your stock axles. The rear is the amc 23 with an ARB and 4.56 gears. Front is D44 with 4.56, Aussie, high and crossover steer (partsmike) and SOA mounts and manual hubs. I have spare shafts for both as well as an additional set of new moly shafts for the rear. That's right, the rear has three sets of shafts for both sides.

Let me know if you are interested. I am not going to give these away but I am not trying to fund my retirement on them either.
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Unread 06-03-2014, 08:46 AM   #5
super98lsc
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Just my .02 here
The carrier bearings and gears are pretty tough as long as they are kept with enough oil. The rear axle bearings (typically driver side) will start getting noisy after 100k just from wear and tear. The driver side even with a factory LSD gets the bulk of the drive power on take-off hence they are usually the first to start making noise. You could clean up the gears with a brass wire wheel check the backlash on them and inspect the pinion/carrier bearings. Likely they are fine. I would change the axle bearings/seals and turn the rotors. If the calipers have been off and old/sitting in the sun etc I would not trust the seals with my life :-/ and for 15 bucks a piece I would start with new.
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Unread 06-03-2014, 12:23 PM   #6
Dr. Marneaus
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Also, maybe it didnt make a ton of noise when driving around because it likely wasnt being driven if there was rust! Its possible the axle was simply stored upside down or what have you for some period of time and the fluid may have drained out of the pumpkin, ask me how i know this happens....or perhaps it just had a bad pinion seal and leaked while being stored....I wouldn't be too concerned about the gears needing rebuilt.

Either way, I paid $250 for a PAIR of axles. I personally wouldnt pay $500 for a set of what appear to be the most common waggy axles out there (but then again I paid $650 for just my unicorn rear axle....). the ones I bought weren't all pretty like that, but apparently they were "fine" as in the u joints weren't destroyed and no seals were visibly bad, just the axles looked worn out. they were complete, with all brakes and everything, but had been stored outside for some time. I ended up dumping about $1000 into the front all said and done I think. My logic? The axle was out, so I rebuilt it.

Some new seals, ball joints (ruined a pair during that process and had to buy another set), new u joints, new tie rod, drag link, tie rod ends, new wheel studs, new rotors, calipers, brake lines, pads, added locking hubs (i'm running a D20), diff oil...I think thats about it. I reused the wheel bearings because they looked 100% fine.

For the rear, i cleaned it up, new bearings and seals, new pinion seal, all new brake hardware, drums included, new diff cover, that was all it needed. There is a bit of pinion slop though, but whatever. it's no worse than the other ones i had.

Also, i know i'm not like, in your neighborhood, but I do have a 3.54 quadratrac offset D44 rear that I'll let go cheap enough if you are out vegas way. Only thing is that it has had the shock mounts removed and a stud type welded up.
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Having a Full Size Jeep is likehaving a hot wife. When you take her out in public it turns heads, they can insight jealousy, you could look at them all day, they require a lot of attention, cost a lot to get them to do what you want them to do, but when they're not happy you'll be cussing, throwing things, and constantly weighing how much you'll lose if you divorce her.

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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:07 AM   #7
sandman_rides
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Dude, if you'll come get them and help me pull them, you can have the axles off my '73, I think both Dana 44, narrow track, for whatever you think is a fair price. (Front drums, though.) It's a long drive down to Sierra Vista, though.
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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman_rides View Post
you can have the axles off my '73, I think both Dana 44
First year of the D44 front in a Waggie was '74, FWIW.
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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:23 AM   #9
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Cool. Any idea what was stock on the '73?
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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman_rides
Cool. Any idea what was stock on the '73?
Close knuckle dana 30

I am I the process of parting one out right now lol
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Having a Full Size Jeep is likehaving a hot wife. When you take her out in public it turns heads, they can insight jealousy, you could look at them all day, they require a lot of attention, cost a lot to get them to do what you want them to do, but when they're not happy you'll be cussing, throwing things, and constantly weighing how much you'll lose if you divorce her.

The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

Gone but not Forgotten: 97 TJs Build Up.

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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:28 AM   #11
Dr. Marneaus
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Also, OP, I don't know if you ever told us what wag they are for and why you are swapping them in? Is this to replace damaged parts or as an upgrade or what?
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Originally Posted by revelc View Post
Having a Full Size Jeep is likehaving a hot wife. When you take her out in public it turns heads, they can insight jealousy, you could look at them all day, they require a lot of attention, cost a lot to get them to do what you want them to do, but when they're not happy you'll be cussing, throwing things, and constantly weighing how much you'll lose if you divorce her.

The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

Gone but not Forgotten: 97 TJs Build Up.

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Unread 06-04-2014, 10:29 AM   #12
Dr. Marneaus
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Those are quadratrac axles and if you have a centered transfer case you may be getting into trouble with driveline angles like I did, but others have done the same trouble free...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revelc View Post
Having a Full Size Jeep is likehaving a hot wife. When you take her out in public it turns heads, they can insight jealousy, you could look at them all day, they require a lot of attention, cost a lot to get them to do what you want them to do, but when they're not happy you'll be cussing, throwing things, and constantly weighing how much you'll lose if you divorce her.

The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

Gone but not Forgotten: 97 TJs Build Up.

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Unread 06-04-2014, 06:08 PM   #13
BugsInMyTeeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
Also, OP, I don't know if you ever told us what wag they are for and why you are swapping them in?
They're for the '64. There's nothing wrong with what's in there now except for the whole 'Let's get closer to Jesus experience' that comes with stopping a 4000lb truck with manual drums on 33" inch tires. It's really all about the brakes. Plus Dad popped a couple of teeth off the 27a in the front romping around the beach down in Baja some years ago. He replaced the ring gear but I don't want anything like that happening on my watch so the dana 44s are kind of a bonus too. And the open knuckles will be cool so I won't have to call the Harbor Master when I need to do a u-turn. There are lots of pros to doing this swap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
Those are quadratrac axles and if you have a centered transfer case you may be getting into trouble with driveline angles like I did, but others have done the same trouble free...
If I have done my homework correctly(thnx again CSP), the '74-'79 axles should very nearly bolt right in. Just add a master cylinder w/ booster and a proportioning valve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman_rides View Post
Dude, if you'll come get them and help me pull them, you can have the axles off my '73...
I sure do appreciate the offer sandman, but I don't think those axles are going to perform the way I want em to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olliehopnoodle View Post
Is this for Pinky or grampa?

I have a set of WT axles out of an 82 Cherokee...
Thnx ollie. As I said above, they're for Grampa. No dice.
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'79 Wagoneer - 'Lucky'
'87 Grand Wagoneer - 'Pinky'

...these Jeeps are breedin like rabbits 'round here.
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Unread 06-05-2014, 04:29 PM   #14
Dr. Marneaus
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Yes, 74-79 axles will botl in. You'll likely have to ream out your pitman arm to fit the bigger TRE though, something about the 74+ pitman arms not fitting right, and contacting something when turning.

You will need to make new brake lines for the updated master cylinder and prop valve. They changed sizes for some of the lines, some of the fittings, and they also switched to the opposite side of the master cylinder. I opted to replace them all the way back. Easy enough, just need to make that big long one. I kept the stock lines from the existing "distribution block" to the front brakes as the sizes didnt change with the years (except one fitting).

If you buy a new prop valve, go with a wilwood or something. I ordered 2 of the brass ones that all probably come from the same factory, and they both failed (leaking from the pin on the front). I replaced with a wilwood and its been fine. 3rd times the charm.

You can modify the push rod on your current style of booster I think, but what I opted to do was keep everything to factroy style off the shelf parts. I replaced the bracket on the firewall, the bracket inside the firewall that connects the brake pedal to the steering column, and also the brake pedal it self. When i did my brake conversion, i replaced all of this with the parts from a 77. I only needed to drill 1 extra hole in the firewall, and i think I had to open one hole up to get it to bolt in. This is the 1973 stuff, which is different from yours, but I'm just giveing you a heads up that you might be better off going with an entire system from pedal to master cylinder. The late style master cylinders would not work right with my 1973 booster, and the late style booster wouldnt work with the bracketry and mounts for the 73 style.



I think a guy on IFSJA was doing a gladiator of the same era as you at the same time I was doing my 73, 44BZ or something was his name. he may be able to give you some more insight.

If you want a fairly comprehensive summary of what I went through, check my build thread starting here:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/m...l#post15475573
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Andrew - Landscape architect in training. Not landscaper

If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made Rosie O' Donnell fat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelc View Post
Having a Full Size Jeep is likehaving a hot wife. When you take her out in public it turns heads, they can insight jealousy, you could look at them all day, they require a lot of attention, cost a lot to get them to do what you want them to do, but when they're not happy you'll be cussing, throwing things, and constantly weighing how much you'll lose if you divorce her.

The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

Gone but not Forgotten: 97 TJs Build Up.

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Unread 06-29-2014, 11:23 PM   #15
BugsInMyTeeth
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Okay, I think I'm on the right track now. I picked up a '79 Waggy roller this weekend so I'd know I had everything I'd need to do the axle/brake swap. I won't actually do it until maybe October when it starts to cool down a bit here. With the highs in the 105-110 (in the shade) every day my attention span just ain't real good.

Man I am friggin STOKED about this. Dad is too. I'm really looking forward to the project.

Won't I need some D44 manual locking hubs to work properly with the D20 t/c?



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'87 Grand Wagoneer - 'Pinky'

...these Jeeps are breedin like rabbits 'round here.
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