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Unread 04-09-2013, 08:25 AM   #1
revelc
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1985 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
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I plan on going to 33" someday anyways but driving at over 6,000 in Colorado the 401 seems kind of doggy off the line. I was thinking something lower in terms of gear to replace the stock gears and return some performance. My cam is on the lower-mid range side but pulls to 5,000RPM.
Has 3.31 gears
Just wondering if anyone has run this ratio with good results.

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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #2
super98lsc
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I thought about the same thing....2500 is approx 70MPH now. In texrock (texas) our tolls are posted 85mph now so lower gears would be awful for me without an overdrive.
70@3100 with 4.11 /31's
56@2500 with 4.11 /31's

59@2500/4.11/33's
74@3100/4.11/33's

The cam in your 401 sounds fairly mild which means that sucker should be cranking a ton of low end TQ out. I would think that 4.11 with an Overdrive will be great. My thoughts are on a 700r4 or a 4L80E with the .71 OD gear, the lower 1st gear in the 700r4 would add even more off the line punch especially if coupled with a good 2400 stall and triple disc lockup clutch. Then we would have all the power through the gears plus can kick up to OD/lockup in 4th.

700r4 has a 3.06 1st gear compared to our 727's 2.45
OD is .70
plus the 700r4 has lockup in 2nd,3rd,4th gears eliminated all friction and losses in the converter at speed, this lops another 2-300 rpm off especially below stall speed.
So in OD with lockup engaged your 3100 rpm would reach approx 105mph with 33's

2200rpm would cruise all day at 75. The grunt of that 401 should have no issue pushing the jeep along comfortably at 75.
Figure a stock 360 made 285tq@1500 rpm so the 401 built will kill that@2200

Another option i looked at is swapping the gear sets inside the 727 for a 2.7 first gear unit.

I mean right now our 2.45 first will hit 55mph@5000 RPM in 1st!
So for most of us that means we mash the go pedal in 1st and then let out just skipping 2nd to 3rd to cruise.
A 2:45 1st combined with the 4.11 rear will hit 45mph@5000
Swap in a 2.7 gearset with a 3.73 gives us the same 45@5000 in 1st. But lets us retain 3.73 ratio for the highway.
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===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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Unread 04-09-2013, 04:08 PM   #3
revelc
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Well it looks like I still have a delimma don't I?! Lol

I know I can drum up a 700R4
I just don't know how much the stall, engine to tranny kit, and tranny to transfer case would cost or if I'd have to get a GM transfer case. I'm sure the steep first and OD would be sweet. But at what cost, you know?
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-10-2013, 02:02 AM   #4
revelc
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I did some number crunching and although I'd need new carriers for 4.10/4.11's the RPM isn't much different than running big tires.

A lot of guys run 4.56 with 35" tires
Our 4.11 gears with 31" tires would only be running 60 more RPM at 75MPH @3,341 RPM

Ghimini runs 4.11's with 28" meats.
Yes his is an all out 1/4 mile machine but 3" in diameter is a good bit.

It may be a little steep but I could either put an OD tranny in or put a 2" body lift on with 33" to drop RPM's for around the same cost.

I drive mostly windy little back roads in my area around 55 or 60. Not going to see much highway time but 3,341 doesn't sound unbearable at the new speed limits.

I want to tear through town and make some noise when the Hondas are out.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-10-2013, 07:34 AM   #5
super98lsc
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with 33" you should be able to just park on top of them :-)

Not related but I run 33" 4" lift on my turbo 4.7 stroker WJ with 3.73 and OD its really comfortable. N/A it could have used 4.10's I am just not certain once the turbo is on (in progress now) if it will even need lower gears. I am hoping the 3.73 will keep tire spin under control.

If you do not run a lot of extended highway at high speeds the 4.10 might work for you. On trips it would drive me insane and probably get 8mpg.
I think it would be neat to find an American Overdrive or Gear vendors that we could adapt to the T-case output and use on the rear driveshaft in 2wd only. Its not like I need my 4x4 engaged at 80+
I did some playing around here probably same one you used.
http://www.4lo.com/4LoCalc.htm
img_0867.jpg   roller-rockers.jpg   20120721_201126.jpg   20121018_124819.jpg  
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77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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Unread 04-10-2013, 08:01 AM   #6
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super98lsc
with 33" you should be able to just park on top of them :-)

Not related but I run 33" 4" lift on my turbo 4.7 stroker WJ with 3.73 and OD its really comfortable. N/A it could have used 4.10's I am just not certain once the turbo is on (in progress now) if it will even need lower gears. I am hoping the 3.73 will keep tire spin under control.

If you do not run a lot of extended highway at high speeds the 4.10 might work for you. On trips it would drive me insane and probably get 8mpg.
I think it would be neat to find an American Overdrive or Gear vendors that we could adapt to the T-case output and use on the rear driveshaft in 2wd only. Its not like I need my 4x4 engaged at 80+
I did some playing around here probably same one you used.
http://www.4lo.com/4LoCalc.htm
Man, that is a sweet sleeper.
That motor looks like a beast!

My relative has an old GM truck we've talked about for a while. It has a SM 465 with a heavy duty transfer case and he said it has a "ranger" box or a splitter in there as well. He said it turns it into an 8-speed. We've been bs'ing about stuffing the one ton axles, tranny, t-case and splitter under the Wagoneer. It ran a Perkins diesel for years until the range box blew up. He has a few laying around to rebuild it with.....


EDIT with transfer case that actually gives me 16 forward gears, and 4 reverse
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-10-2013, 09:21 AM   #7
super98lsc
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Gas wagoneer with an Eaton Fuller rofl :-)
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06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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Unread 04-10-2013, 09:56 AM   #8
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super98lsc
Gas wagoneer with an Eaton Fuller rofl :-)
I'd need a cool CB handle to go by if I did it lol.
Maybe I could start a business hauling Chevys and baby Jeeps back home when the trail wins
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-10-2013, 11:14 AM   #9
super98lsc
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Company called American overdrive made units that went on the back of an np205 case, seems we could find one for the 229? From what ive read they dont have their own hydraulic pump so it would require some form of hydraulic pressure supply like a pto or power steering pump/cooler.
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06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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Unread 04-10-2013, 01:26 PM   #10
revelc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super98lsc
Company called American overdrive made units that went on the back of an np205 case, seems we could find one for the 229? From what ive read they dont have their own hydraulic pump so it would require some form of hydraulic pressure supply like a pto or power steering pump/cooler.
They are around $3,500 not including drive shaft being shortened, adapting etc.

This would be free aside from the slave, master, clutch, and flywheel, fabbing parts and brackets. And the bell-housing adapter. And I could use it in 4x4 as well. So I wouldn't be limited to 4x2.

http://www.advanceadapters.com/downl...Overdrive1.pdf

I could either gear my diffs up for a really low cruising RPM or gear down to retain the same engine RPM at cruise but have a near rock crawling ratio when I am using granny low in low range with 4 low.

Low low low would be killer on the trail.

The unit he has is the 27% overdrive.

I just don't know the ratios on the axles but it was run with a diesel so it had to have low RPM's running it down the road.
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-10-2013, 02:01 PM   #11
revelc
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With 31" and 4.11


At 65 my RPM would be 3,125

And I'd have a crawl ratio of 89.37!
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Wag Rebuilt 360, 260H, 727, Locked 44, AMC 20, 208, 31" M/T's, 4" Rustys, 2.5" Duals. SOON:SOA SF, 496, T400, Doubler, D60's, 37" M/T's <-TOY
Cherokee Rebuilt 360, 2" Duals, mostly stock. SOON: Hot Street 401, 4'' Rustys, 33" BFG A/T's maybe a T-case to get rid of Q-Track <-TOW RIG
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Unread 04-10-2013, 08:40 PM   #12
super98lsc
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in case any small freighters get stuck in the mud....you can yank em out!
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06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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Unread 04-13-2013, 09:19 AM   #13
RockRollin
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WJ looks Sweet Super..... but SNOWFLAKES!!!! Man....
I've been trying to talk my younger Bro into the stroker, but I'm thinking he'll wait till the 4.0 loses service
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Unread 04-13-2013, 11:36 AM   #14
super98lsc
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idle vid.
YouTube (Short URL)
?start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>
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06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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Unread 04-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #15
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Im rocking 31" wranglers, with either 4.88s or 5.38s i cant remember. Either way its frickin terrible. I cant drive over 60km/h, and with the big ol 5.7 its scary as hell. I have way too much hp (never thought id say that) and blew the rear end last year. I think ill be upgrading to 35's tire-wise, and downgrading to 4.10's or 4.56's for gears. I dont think the brakes can handle 37's on that old machine with 425hp.
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