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Unread 08-18-2012, 09:14 PM   #1
balzer
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71 J4000 Gladiator "Yeti" build

Ok I got this from a guy I used to work with it WAS in great condition right up until he hit a deer at 75mph.

It is actually a 1 ton J4800. D44 front closed knuckle drum brakes, D60 rear, AMC 360, TH400, and a D20 x-case.
The guy I got it from had the alum topper custom built to match the truck he said it was right at $2800 to have them build it.

So the bumper, grill, header, radiator support, radiator, fan and shroud, water pump and several engine acc. brackets were all damaged.

I aquired a 83 fullsize cherokee for parts thinking I could just use all the engine accessories from the 83. NOPE AMC does NOT interchange as well as GM. Kinda upset me but at least I have some body parts.

Being a GM guy I am going to pull the drive train and swap in gm stuff. I have a 78 chevy camper special that was a 400 (actually a 396 for those that dont know) But it had been replaced with a new GM 454 about 10,000 miles ago the trans was also replaced at that time *at least according to the previous owner.* The chevy is pretty rusty and chevys are a dime a dozen anyway.
Other plans are to eventually swap the front axle to a newer open knucle disk brake version. MAYBE a 2-3" lift and I would like to run 285x75x16 tires. I hope to repaint it at some point and would like a rhino grill. I will build a front winch bumper for a warn M12,000 too.
Ill get some pics when they load.

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Unread 08-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #2
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its worse than it looks...


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Unread 08-19-2012, 10:44 AM   #3
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"I aquired a 83 fullsize cherokee for parts thinking I could just use all the engine accessories from the 83. NOPE AMC does NOT interchange as well as GM. Kinda upset me but at least I have some body parts."

AMC interchanges, just as well as chevy, with other AMCs.
AMC doesn't interchange with Kaiser, who built your truck. Using GM engines.
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Unread 08-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #4
balzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleontks View Post
"I aquired a 83 fullsize cherokee for parts thinking I could just use all the engine accessories from the 83. NOPE AMC does NOT interchange as well as GM. Kinda upset me but at least I have some body parts."

AMC interchanges, just as well as chevy, with other AMCs.
AMC doesn't interchange with Kaiser, who built your truck. Using GM engines.
AMC bought jeep in 1970 my truck is a 1971

My truck DOES NOT have a GM engine.
My truck has a AMC 360 the 83 cherokee has an AMC 360 the heads are drilled different for the accessory brackets, One crank has 3 perimiter bolts holding the crank pully on the other has 4 bolts holding the crank pully on.
So basically I cannot use any of the engine accessory brackets or pullys from the 83 to the 71. Now the cherokee does have the factory edelbrock intake manifold and I am sure that will interchange.
I can get you numbers off the blocks if you want but I assure you I have already done my research. In fact I did the research before I bought the cherokee because I knew from the begining, that the 12 year difference could mean completely different engines transmissions and transfercases. Both engines came up as AMC 360 and I assumed that most of what I needed would interchange and at worse I would have to use all the engine accessories and brakets and pullys. However none of it bolts up.

I will tell you that the 71 has all of the holes in the heads however they are far too big and they are not threaded. There are also mounting hole differences in the timing housing.

Now you may be partially correct. I am willing to bet that if I was willing to do the work I could swap the heads, timing chain housing, and the crank. But thats more work than I am willing to do. Also the 71 360 runs perfect, no need to rebuild it, and the 83 360 is blown.

I understand that there are some purists out there that wont like my plan but I have a perfectly running and driving chevy with low milage 454 and transmission, and a rusted out body. So between the 2 I can have a great truck.
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Unread 08-19-2012, 11:51 AM   #5
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Some info I need help finding. What year did J20's have open knuckle, disk brake, 8 lug, D44 front, spring over axle stock?

My truck has closed knuckles and drum brakes. Technically this is fine and will do the job but I would like to upgrade the brakes and open knuckles will turn far sharper than closed knuckles.

I do have 1 chevy d44 and 2 chevy gm 10B front axles. I suppose I could change the spring perches to fit the wider spread jeep springs and change the shock mounts but I honestly dont know what gear ratio is in the jeep rear D60. I would rather find a bolt in axle to keep down time to a minimum. I will focus on the drivetrain swap first.
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Unread 08-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #6
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I was surfing through the full size threads and came upon yours because of the title. It is your truck and you can do whatever you want to it but I am one of the 'purists' that is going to complain. You bought a good running truck that needs body work and the front of the engine replaced. In my opinion, you are going to unnecessarily replace 90%(?) of the drivetrain from a donor Chevy. Sounds to me like you need to sell this truck and find a replacement body for the Chevy and then you will be happy. My 2 cents, not that it matters
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Unread 08-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #7
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None of the FSJ's with disc brakes were spring-over stock.

What is the spring to spring spacing on this one? The '74 and up FSJ spacing is the same as GM, 31.5".

AMC may have built this one, but it still had a lot of Kaiser spec'd parts and dimensions in it. The same was said for the first AMC CJs.
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Unread 08-22-2012, 05:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCJ-5 View Post
I was surfing through the full size threads and came upon yours because of the title. It is your truck and you can do whatever you want to it but I am one of the 'purists' that is going to complain. You bought a good running truck that needs body work and the front of the engine replaced. In my opinion, you are going to unnecessarily replace 90%(?) of the drivetrain from a donor Chevy. Sounds to me like you need to sell this truck and find a replacement body for the Chevy and then you will be happy. My 2 cents, not that it matters
If you have had a FSJ you probably realise that they are far less common than the big 3. I have been on the look out for the body parts I need or want for about 3 years, and still dont have what I need or want. Every time i find the parts I run into 1 or more of 3 things. 1 too expencive 2 too far away or 3 cant get the owner to sell. You can be a purist all you want there is nothing wrong with that. If I want to build a jeep my way there is nothing wrong with that either. I will tell you that if you would like to hunt down all the parts for me pay for the parts and fund the upgrades to the oiling system that apparantly wasnt very good on the first amcs then I will gladly build it your way.

If I wanted to build a chevy I have about 5 to choose from and I wouldnt have bought this truck to begin with. Dont make assumptions about my happiness.
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Unread 08-22-2012, 05:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSP View Post
None of the FSJ's with disc brakes were spring-over stock.

What is the spring to spring spacing on this one? The '74 and up FSJ spacing is the same as GM, 31.5"
Bummer...

I dont know the actual measurment off hand but its obviously wider looking at the 2 side by side It looks to be wide enough to miss the cast diff housing on a chevy axle so that may be the next option. I guess I could throw my GM D60 front and 14B rear in it.....

Anyone have a 6bt cummins to donate? I have a line on a cheap 6.9L ford international IDI diesel.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 08:06 AM   #10
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The GM D60 has the same spring spacing as the GM D44.

I'd be measuring the spring perch to spring perch distance on the truck before assuming that it's wider. I don't recall those pre-74 frames being any wider, so the spring spacing wouldn't be wider either.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #11
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You are correct about the frames, the frame on the 71 gladiator, is the same width as the 83 cherokee. However the cherokee springs are under the frame and the gladiator springs are on posts outside of the frame. When I get a chance I will measure it. But it is visually wider.

I appoligize, this thread has been more fluff than action so far. I have been working a lot.

Just ran out and measured as stated the chevy is 31.5" the Gladiator is 39.5"
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Unread 08-23-2012, 02:22 PM   #12
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Ah yes, I forgot that the fronts were outboard. I knew the rears were.

Since the frames are the same, it seems like it wouldn't be much work to convert to the '74 and up spring mounts under the frame. However, you may run into spring compatibility problems because those older ones can be all over the place when it comes to dimensions of spring eyes, etc. You're not going to find a later modeled front axle with a 39.5" spring perch distance, so it doesn't leave you much choice if you are intent on swapping axles.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 10:05 PM   #13
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Had a setback, someone wanted the chevy and I had some bills that needed paid. Oh well, I am that much closer to being all caught up from some finacial troubles a few months ago. It also pushes me towards finding a diesel for the truck since thats what I really want anyway.

As far as the spring perches the 39.5" is wide enough to miss the cast section of the diff so its just a simple matter of welding on new perches to fit the springs and relocate shock mounts.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #14
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Yes you can miss the cast in perch. Then you still have issues finding the right springs if you want to change the existing ones out and you the potential is there with big tires to rub the springs. I'm not trying to get you to do something you don't want to do, but there are advantages of swapping the setup in from a newer fullsize Jeep.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 06:00 PM   #15
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Well I'll tell you my intentions or desires for this truck.
If I had my way it would get a 12v cummins and a 5 speed with a resto mod to the exterior and interior I really dont want to lift it much maybe 2". I would like to outfit the shell for camping. Think of a expo vehicle in essence.

I would love the truck to be outfitted in such a way that I could put my TJ on a trailer and go to moab or the rubicon or wherever. Camp in the truck and wheel the TJ. I dont really want huge tires in fact I think that 285x75x16 might fit as is or with a mild (2")lift.

So for my plans I dont think I will run into trouble. If I later decide to go bigger, I think I would relocate the springs inboard and build in a bit of lift in order to run lower lift springs with a softer ride.

At one point I had envisioned making M-715 style fender flares but a bit more refined. Opening up the fender openings for very large tires I think a M-715 will fit 44's stock?

But with the price of tires.......... yea I think I will stay smaller.
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