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Unread 06-15-2013, 10:20 PM   #1
Millhouse
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1970 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
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70 Wagoneer Running Hot

Hey gang,

Took the waggy for a 700 mile road trip last weekend. It really ran great with the exception of it running too hot. Typically, it runs around 180 degrees, but at 70 mph or so on long stretches (2-3 hours) it would creep past 190 to 210 degrees. When I would shut it off when I'd stop for gas or because I was worried it would overheat, it would peg to 250. Then I would wait 30 minutes or so until it cooled to 190, start it, and it would cool down to 160. I checked the coolant with a tester and it seems to be good. I have a few questions, and hoping I could get a little insight. You guys are always so very helpful.

1. The guy I bought it from last summer just had the radiator repaired and flushed. Should I be looking for a completely new radiator? I'm not finding an OEM one at my local NAPA or anything like that. Any ideas? Jegs?

2. Could the problem be solved with a cooling fan like this one?

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...4410&ppt=C0331

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Unread 06-16-2013, 07:54 AM   #2
lucdog
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It's normal for the temp. To rise after shutting the engine off. The engine is still warm, but the coolent isn't circulating with the engine off. I'll bet if you would have started it right back up it would have dropped back to 190/200.
At 70 mph the air is coming thru the radiator faster than a fan could pull anyway. So no, the electric fan wouldn't help. The O'Reillys fan most likely wouldn't pull enough CFM's at idle or city driving either.

A number of things can cause the temps to rise.
1.) a collapseing lower radiator hose, ( a spring can solve this.
2.) sediment in the block causing poor circulating coolent. ( flushing the block would help)
3.) running to large of tire with say 2.73 to 1 gearing. This would work the engine hard.
4.) thermostat not opening completely restricting coolent flow.
5.) pulling a trailer.
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
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1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
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Unread 06-16-2013, 10:25 AM   #3
Millhouse
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Thanks lucodg, much appreciated. I'll comment on your suggestions:

1. I'll check that
2. If I do a coolant flush, does this flush the block as well? I apologize if this is an elementary question. This might be a great idea since I bought the thing in the Arizona desert and it sat for almost 8 years.
3. Normal size tires, so no worries there
4. I really think this is the culprit.
5. I've never pulled a trailer with it.

I just stopped at my local NAPA. The manager is a big Jeep guy and a small block chevy guy at that. (My '70 runs the Buick 350). His first recommendation was actually a new radiator cap as he thought the system wasn't being held at a constant pressure. For $5, I'll try that first. His second recommendation was the thermostat and said the same thing you did about the coolant fan.

I'll let her cool down a bit, try the radiator cap and post my findings.

Thanks again!
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Unread 06-16-2013, 10:36 AM   #4
RockRollin
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I second the chemical flush. When I do this, I will run it at temp for 15-20min., let it cool, drain it, remove thermostat, disconnect lower hose at radiator, flush both directions from heater core hose, repeat if not sparkling
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Unread 06-16-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
lucdog
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2.) Flush, most of it but not all. In the below picture (AMC 360) just below the freeze plug is a 3/8" pipe nipple. I doubt a flush would clean much from behind it.

image-1451587328.jpg

I'm would think a Buick 350 would have the same plug, SBC's do.

Just to give you a idea, I have a SBC in my boat (1995) . I drain the water thru these 2 plugs , one on each side, every year. With water just sitting in the block and then removing the plug, water only drips out, until I run a coat hanger in the hole.

Replace the cap, check the lower hose, and the thermostat if you think that might be the problem. And go from there.
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 06-16-2013, 11:23 PM   #6
super98lsc
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Get a new core installed in the existing radiator or grab a replacement with staggered/Offset tubes that offers more cooling capacity. I had the same issue with my 90, I installed an Oreilly replacement that uses an aluminum core with dual rows but they are 1 inch tubes vs the smaller tubes in the 3 row brass, also there are literally 20 more tubes per row. The higher tube per inch count adds a lot more cooling capacity. Look for a thread of mine called Radiators.
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Unread 06-17-2013, 05:50 PM   #7
olliehopnoodle
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I love overheating threads! it's such a difficult thing to trouble shoot.

At speed your engine produces more heat than the cooling system can effectivly handle. So either the cooling system is not efficient or the engine is producing more heat than it should.

Efficient cooling: Since you are runing at 70mph there is plenty of air hitting the radiator. Your fan isn't going to be the problem. It cools great at idle so I would tend to believe the water pump is okay. Thermostat not opening all the way is a good possibility.

But you might also have the engine producing too much heat. Where is your timing set? What are you running for a carb? A lean condition can cause the engine to run hot.
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Unread 06-18-2013, 02:56 AM   #8
RockRollin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olliehopnoodle View Post
I love overheating threads! it's such a difficult thing to trouble shoot.

At speed your engine produces more heat than the cooling system can effectivly handle. So either the cooling system is not efficient or the engine is producing more heat than it should.

Efficient cooling: Since you are runing at 70mph there is plenty of air hitting the radiator. Your fan isn't going to be the problem. It cools great at idle so I would tend to believe the water pump is okay. Thermostat not opening all the way is a good possibility.

But you might also have the engine producing too much heat. Where is your timing set? What are you running for a carb? A lean condition can cause the engine to run hot.
LOL, it is a wide range of issues that can cause a heat up, just quite driving it over 60 and it'll be fine. Tuning the "cooling system" can be as complex as tuning the engine. You could have multiple things causing warm up. Pick one, make sure it works, move to the next. Clawed was heating up over 60, new water pump cured it, after the carb and intake it was heating up agian, larger jets cured it. I've been flushing "dexcool" mud out of my radiator since day one, finally replaced it. I'm thinking industrial cooler on a trailer may be next.
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Unread 06-18-2013, 09:41 AM   #9
super98lsc
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Industrial cooler roflmao!
This is my proven but pricey formula.

1. Tune engine to proper mix with a wideband 02. (the non datalogging ones are under 200 bucks now)

2. Set timing where runs the best

3. Stock water pump and pulley speed (no underdrives needed, cant tell you how many people try to tell me to slow th water flow down etc,.ugh were not road racing at 7k rpm)

4. Chemically flush the block using a good flush agent and run it for 4 days then connect the garden hose to the heater lines and flush it out until clear water runs out.

5. A good aluminum cored radiator, you are looking for staggered cores meaning the rows of tubes are not unline with each other to maximize airflow through the unit. The thinner the core the more air will pass through it & the more effective the fans will be. The idea is wider the tubes (looking front to back) and more of them spaced across the core ie tubes per inch the more btu the unit will disperse. 1 inch tubes are good. My 2 row aluminum core has 40 more tubes across the core and being one inch vs. 1/2 inch the cooling capacity is massively increased over the brass 3 row I removed. The 3 row was clean and replaced a few years ago. The thing to keep in mind is that all cores are not equal. I have compared 2 four row units from two different companies for the same car and had one be higher capacity than the other. (442 olds)

Bottom line is if the machanicals are in order and it runs hot, get a better radiator. Part# MHT 433581 this is the unit I run now and with 100 deg temps AC, cruising 70 to 80 My temps stay at 185 with the fan off. also when I pull off the freeway now the e fan kicks on and keeps temps at 180 to 185 no more heat soaking that takes four miles of doing <50 to dissipate.
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77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
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