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Unread 11-21-2014, 01:56 PM   #1
localhaole
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1969 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
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'69 Wagoneer Trans shot?

If someone could provide a little input I'd be forever grateful. I have a 1969 straight 6 with 3 speed trans seems to be completely stock here on Kauai. It has about only 70 thousand or so miles on it and I've been driving it and repairing it (minor stuff mostly) for about 4 years. So there are a few issues that I am OK with but wonder if these were the cause of the trans not going into ANY gear except park. As usual it wont start unless you finagle the column shifter a bit by pushing it forward whilst in park. I think this a safety switch of sorts so I don't ... yada yada. There were a few vac leaks around the carb and I replaced the PCV valve and line as this allowing to suck too much air and wala - runs again. The exhaust manifold is (was) continually getting loose - the studs are rusted and have almost no threads and the nuts were doubled up. So making due I just clamped the ***** out of the manifold to tailpipe section where the doughnut gasket is - and this seems to be just fine for the moment. So this thing has been running great other then some normal Hawaii rotting and such UNTIL -- I am trying to leave and when I shift it into reverse, there is a small grinding sound and then the engine starts to idle REAL SMOOTH - no load. I have been meticulous in the upkeep of the fluids on my Jeep so it's good on trans fluit, oil, brake fluid, water. The brake booster has long since crapped out and I have simply just unhooked the vac line and plugged both ends. Works fine. I REALLY don't know the first thing about working on transmissions and the thought of not driving it any more -eh sucks too. So, naturally I've got several vultures trying to get this off me for cheap and I would really just like to get some other input on the issue because I love my wagoneer - and so does my chick. Is it possible that the park safety is just broken off or something? A friend stood up front and 'checked the trans linkage' as he said to shift it into all gears and it didn't do a darn thing - he said the linkage seemed good as if it was going into the positions. PLEASE HELP!!

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Unread 11-21-2014, 10:46 PM   #2
BagusJeep
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Sorry, could you be a little clearer on the problem?

Will it not engage the starter due to an issue with the Neutral Safety Switch in Park?

If the engine does start will it not engage gear?

Do you know which 3 speed 1969 transmission it actually has? It could be a GMTH400 or a Borg Warner unit, the TH400 is a very common unit and cheap to fix. Photos would be useful, the forum can then debate what you have.
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Unread 11-25-2014, 05:26 PM   #3
localhaole
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I was told by a friend (who did not look) it had the TH400 but internet says the pan for this has a misshapen Texas looking outline. here's a pic of the pan. It starts up fine but when I shift into anything other than park it goes to neutral. When this began, I heard a little grinding sound(like when shifting to 4WD) now, when i pull the shifter down it does NOTHING. Big bummer. The linkage is moving but I guess maybe some inside piece is detached? REALLY won't even pretend to know darn thing about transmissions but I've gotta LEARN because I shall be fixing this somehow I hope. Thanks a million for any advice or assistance y'all can give.
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Unread 11-25-2014, 05:33 PM   #4
localhaole
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OKAY here are some images - thanks again for the input
jeep.jpg   trans.jpg  
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Unread 11-25-2014, 08:31 PM   #5
BagusJeep
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This may sound stupid, but have you got the transfer box in neutral? Which transfer box have you got and do you have manual locking hubs on the front?
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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
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Unread 11-25-2014, 08:35 PM   #6
BagusJeep
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It looks like a TH400 but I am not the greatest living expert on sump pans.
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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
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Unread 11-25-2014, 08:41 PM   #7
BagusJeep
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If the transfer box is in gear and you have manually checked the shifter cable is moving the selector on the side of the box I woudl haev guessed it was a fluid pressure issue i.e. no pressure to move the mechanism.

There is a high pressure pump inside the transmission but it is pretty reliable. Sometimes the filter in the sump blocks up and starves the pump of fluid but the fluid would have to be a in a poor state. It could also be very low on fluid.

What colours is the fluid, any signs of black or silver particles and have you checked the cold fluid level (it is different to hot fluid level, ATF expands a lot with heat)
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BagusJeep lives in Bali, the Land of Temples.
With a Jeep every prayer counts.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
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Unread 11-26-2014, 10:16 AM   #8
localhaole
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Thanks again for the help! I initially was told it sounded like the transfer box WAS somehow inadvertently shifted into neutral but I checked the heck out of it and I AM NO EXPERT but it hasn't been moved. It certainly seems like its in neutral but how would it get that way without me putting it there I wonder? It's just the lever that is on the floor beneath the glove box that shifts between 2 and 4WD right? Yes the front hubs are of the locking variety. Another excellent suggestion with the trans fluid pump as my neighbor suggested I drop the pan and clean the filter and somehow check to see if the pump is pumping as, to him, it seems like a lack of pressure due to no fluid pumping ... Possibly a blockage. The fluid state is good and red and smells fine and not burnt. The level is above adequate. It does seem to be stuck in neutral but I have no idea besides using the floor shifter how to change this (or how it was changed) so the floor shifter 2/4WD lever does nothing when I move it as well. Whole thing is either in PARK or neutral.

Thanks.
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Unread 11-26-2014, 10:32 AM   #9
localhaole
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Also, having read nearly nearly everything I can pertaining to this issue, I am wondering if this could be a vacuum issue. The interior gauge reads around 20 or so but fluctuates and I don't know it's truthfulness honestly... But having had some vac issues with the carb and the PVC valve and line change fixing the starting issues a short time ago I'm wondering if some vac lines are shot in the trans area. I don't know much about this but I was told this too could be the trouble and as I understand I think that vacuum does actuate the switching between 4 and 2 wheel drive (at the lever?) I wonder if this is my issue. I cannot see any visible vac lines but I'm sure with more disassembly they are there. Thanks again for the assistance.
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Unread 11-27-2014, 01:39 AM   #10
BagusJeep
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I thought it would have a Dana 20 transfer box, a very reliable and sturdy purely mechanical device. Have you got a photo of the shifter? If it is a Dana 20 it should go from range to range with a hefty clunk, sometimes hard to move it in and out, there are four settings and I think it goes from furthest away to near as 4H, 2H, N, 4L. If it is flopping about or easy to shift I would check underneath that it is not detached and stuck in Neutral.

There is an outside chance it is a Dana 21, very rare. This had no low range and so it must have gone 4H, 2H, N. Have you experienced low range before or is it just high range 4x4 and 2 wheel drive?

The only ones with vac lines were Qadra trac equipped and that was I believe from 1973 to 1979. A good system but getting hard to maintain.

The TH400 has a vacuum line but only to the modulator, which will not explain why it is not going into Drive.
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BagusJeep lives in Bali, the Land of Temples.
With a Jeep every prayer counts.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
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Unread 11-30-2014, 01:40 AM   #11
localhaole
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it seems like the shifter is somehow in neutral as i've said. but the shifter lever is not 'flopping around' but still doesn't seem to do a darn thing. but is yet hard to move from selection to selection. i am going to go with the 'possibly detached under the car' and give this a good look if i can see exactly where the heck it is that this is! Thanks for the great troubleshooting advice and i'll let you know.
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