1977 360/1987 360 any real difference? - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Full Size Jeep Forum > 1977 360/1987 360 any real difference?

Stainless Steel Door Hinge PinsPoly Door Hinge BushingsFS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 07-21-2014, 08:40 PM   #1
56Mercgal
Registered User
1987 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: salinas, ca
Posts: 92
1977 360/1987 360 any real difference?

Well, just bought a AMC 360 to install into my 87' Grand Waggy to at least get it going and smogged. The guy I bought it from is a good customer of ours at the shop I work at. Ran good, decent compression, however he thinks it's a 77', not an 84' so now I am wondering if I opened a can of worms now! Engine was $400, the emissions stuff I purchased from Team Grand Wagoneer for the 87' block looks like it will bolt on ok. Is there any real differences between the 77 and the 87? Any other thing I should be aware of? Thanks!

56Mercgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-21-2014, 09:03 PM   #2
super98lsc
Web Wheeler
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,396
Don't think there is any difference. All of the emissions equip will bolt up especially if your using your original manifolds. Others may chime in but I'm swapping in a 70 401 that is fairly built up in place of my worn out 90 360 and as far as all the bolt ons I see no issues other than my flex plate for the trans being different balance for the 401. (Non issue for you) :-)
__________________
www.mangierisrc.com
06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
super98lsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-21-2014, 10:08 PM   #3
CSP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 12,082
Is CA emissions going to ding you because the engine is older than the vehicle? I'm guessing that they will.
CSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-21-2014, 11:49 PM   #4
gpcl16
Registered User
1988 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
Posts: 49
I do CA smog checks routinely at work. Technically it's illegal to install an older engine than the vehicle but virtually no smog tech will notice the difference, especially on a Jeep 360 that are pretty rare. Also the engines are pretty much exactly the same 71-91 so no easy way to tell for the smog tech. As long as you have ALL the correct year smog equipment in place, it should pass the visual. Test your EGR and make sure it works correctly. Check all of your evap lines for leaks, and gas cap seal to pass the evap. Make sure your air pump is working and the line goes down to your cat. It will make a difference on emissions.

Now passing emissions is a different story... These are about the most difficult vehicles I've encountered to get to pass. Way behind their time in terms of fuel control. You probably will want to have the carb tuned with an exhaust gas analyzer before even attempting the smog check. You will probably need to do some tuning to pass, especially at idle, (and then return the settings to actually run well after you pass). If your emissions are high at 2500, you may need to readjust the float level and make sure you have the correct jet size on the mains.

Make sure you get it smogged by someone who actually understands carburetors. When running the test, you need to let the throttle down very SLOWLY from 2500 to idle. If you pull out the throttle quickly, like some inexperienced smog techs do, the engine will suck in a bunch of vacuum (Fuel) and make the idle emissions readings skyrocket.

And God help you if you live in an "Enhanced smog check area." Then you have to run it on a dyno. California sucks... Best of luck.
__________________
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 4x4
360 V8, Torqueflight 727 Auto Trans
Dana 44s 3.31, Rear TrueTrac
gpcl16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-22-2014, 12:09 AM   #5
jeeppwner
Registered User
1999 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: san antonio, tx
Posts: 86
Its been awhile but one little quirk I think is the exhaust manifold bolts. I believe the end exhaust manifold holes on a newer 360 block are smaller? than 3/8 thread? Older 77 heads should all be 3/8 thread...
jeeppwner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-22-2014, 08:18 AM   #6
super98lsc
Web Wheeler
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,396
I am all for clean air but man at this point how many old classics are still running that could even impact the air quality of the whole damned state this much? By now it seems like overkill on 20 + year old machines. If it's not belching smoke then good to roll rofl.
__________________
www.mangierisrc.com
06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
super98lsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-22-2014, 01:17 PM   #7
carnuck
Registered User
1984 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,213
Speaking as a retired tech (Ford, but that's besides the point because I did the used car side so I got everything that WASN'T Ford!) and an AMC guy, there was no noticeable internal differences to the motor that would disqualify a '77 Motor from being used in an '87 IF the following was done.
All external emissions were swapped to the "new" motor, including the carb, hoses, intake and exhaust manifolds plus any sensors. You need a comparable cam for the emission one used in '87 and the timing chain/gear set was factory retarded 4 degrees to lower emissions as well. The pistons and heads were the same both years (check the casting numbers to confirm) and so was the compression ratio. Since you are bringing the older motor up to the newer emission equipment, it should pass the sniff test with ease. You should call a testing station referee (from someone else's phone) and see what they say to be sure.
__________________
"Usually found in a Jeep near Reiter, WA"
FOR SALE STUFF
http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

'81 Eagle wagon with upgrades $2500
'87 Comanche shortbox 4.0/AW4/NP242 on 33" tires $3500
carnuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2014, 08:53 AM   #8
super98lsc
Web Wheeler
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,396
If I recall (and others chime in if you have better/more info) at least in earlier years the California engines had a later exhaust closing on them vs the "National" camshaft profile that was used.

These are 360 specs for an early 70's 360. Not certain what the profiles were in 77 vs later years. The additional exhaust was to promote more EGR for emissions reasons. Carnuck is spot on about the 4deg cam timing change as well. If it will pass the sniff test with the national cam I would use that as it will make a better TQ curve.

California: 263.5 int. / 293.52 exh. both @ .266" lobe lift. 71.49* overlap
  • Intake opens @ 14.75* BTDC, Closes @ 68.75* ATDC
  • Exhaust opens @ 56.77* BBDC, Closes @ 56.75* ATDC
Nationwide: 263.5* int. and exh. both @ .266" lobe lift. 41.58* overlap
  • Intake opens @ 14.75* BTDC, Closes @ 68.758 ATDC
  • Exhaust opens @ 56.75* BTDC, Closes @ 26.75* ATDC
__________________
www.mangierisrc.com
06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
super98lsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2014, 09:19 AM   #9
56Mercgal
Registered User
1987 FSJ Wagoneer 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: salinas, ca
Posts: 92
Hi and thanks for all the info on this thing! I HATE SMOGGING!! But, I do want cleaner air, but California is such a Nazi state for that. I work at a diesel performance shop and much of the issues with these newer trucks is all related to emissions. Anyway, we bought this engine being that it ran good (not great, but good, has good compression) it supposedly was "rebuilt" a few years ago. the guy I bought it from wasn't sure how far they went into it. Just a little bit of what I call silver dust in the oil analysis. It is basically just to get this thing going, smogged and later I will either rebuild the original engine or if I strike it rich, do a conversion. We plan on using the best parts off the 87' block, like the manifold since it has the two bbl carb on it. The 77' has a 4bbl. This engine also came with all the emissions and A/C unit. Lots of rat presents on the top of engine as this Jeep sat outside in the country for a few years! My smog guy is pretty good with carbs and knows older vehicles, he drives a 71' Ford Ranchero and a 70 Comet modified race car
56Mercgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2014, 10:04 AM   #10
super98lsc
Web Wheeler
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,396
Too bad you cannot use the 4 barrel that engine rated with 30 more hp than the 2bbl unit which was 140hp vs 170hp 280ft/lb. The 77' 2 barrel was a dog at only 129hp so at least you got the 4 barrel version.
__________________
www.mangierisrc.com
06-Corvette z51-6spd,b&b,K&N low miles.
77-Corvette Stingray 496 BBC/TH400 built 667hp+
===================================
00 WJ 4x4, 4.7 stroker, turbocharged,..lots more..
01 WJ 4x2 4.7v8 Limited (needs valve job)
90 Grand Wagoneer 401 Edelbrock Heads, Lunati .510/.527 FT Cam, Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, Holley HP 750, Thorley Headers, HEI, Electric Fan w Digital controller,4" lift 31x10.50 Goodyear Duratrac's on Pro-Comp Wheels,new interior, seats,seals,Alpine and JL full system, Remote HEI, Clifford 2 way with remote start,windows,tailgate.
96 Cherokee Country 4dr/2x2 White/Tan 3" Lift Sahara 18" Wheels 32.5"'s 99up head and intake- for sale soon!
super98lsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2014, 11:36 AM   #11
lycanthrope
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: riverside, ca
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 56Mercgal View Post
My smog guy is pretty good with carbs and knows older vehicles, he drives a 71' Ford Ranchero and a 70 Comet modified race car
Your smog guy is pretty smart. He drives smog-exempt vehicles.
__________________
Tommy
lycanthrope is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-04-2014, 09:59 PM   #12
tdkask
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Marys / Kingsland / Kings Bay GA, GA
Posts: 553
I am so glad to live in BFE Georgia. No inspections. I drive a '80 CJ7 and I don't even have an E brake(auto trans, at least) or fenders (front tube fenders, no flare). All of my wiring is custom. My engine (a '74 J10 360 2bbl) has a vacuum line to intake, one to power brakes, and one to distributor. No smog. Tune for best power/economy and go. I would hate the hassle you go through there.
__________________
USN Jeep Club Hull #135 (Retired USN 1992-2012)
'80 CJ7__258, TF999, D300__'86 CJ WT D44/D30's(3.54s)__GPF custom front/rear bumpers
4" springs__33x15s on black steelies__Galaxy DX959 CB__Cage (built onto YJ "family" bar)
tdkask is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.