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Unread 01-09-2014, 10:23 PM   #1
cpeters1928
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Ways to get better fuel mileage

Hey guys

So what I'm trying to do is see what are some of the things you guys do to make your jeeps more fuel efficient.

Post away!

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Unread 01-11-2014, 10:23 AM   #2
Indy
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Its a giant brick on wheels. Drive slowly, pretty much the only thing that will make a difference.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 02:00 PM   #3
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get a prius or walk. or stop smoking and use that money towards fuel.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 08:24 AM   #4
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Get a Bluetooth OBDII reader and read the live mpg from your phone. You well learn a lot about how your driving effects fuel efficiency.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 12:58 PM   #5
fastfreddie
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Purely posted for academic review. I can not verify any of the following from personal experience.

Without going crazy and tearing everything down to the last nut and bolt for a dedicated eco- build...

Fresh grease and lube fluids for the engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft joints, differentials, axle joints and wheel bearings. This can be DIY and, aside from time, relatively inexpensive...not to mention good to do anyway.
Basically, anything spun by the engine needs to be clean and lubricated. If you wanna be anal, add alternator, AC compressor, idler pulley, PS pump, water pump, fan...check 'em, at least.

Free flowing intake and exhaust. $$$. Results vary. Proper map tuning on a dyno will extract maximum potential for mileage, performance or a compromise of both, albeit, still better than stock. Either way, with effective products(some rob you of power and economy), gains can be seen.

Map tuning. On a dyno. You want "specific to your build" on "your engine" tuning, not downloaded or prepackaged in a chip...those are half-assed solutions encompassing all the available products.
Make sure you do all the lube stuff first.

Higher tire pressures. You'll wear the center tread quicker. Just throw it into the corners harder to even the wear.

Vacuum gauge. Mainly used as a visual representation of how hard your engine is suckin' air*, therefore, gas.
NOT a boost gauge nor a boost/vacuum gauge, a straight out vacuum gauge only.
It can tell you lot of other things if you know how to fully read one.
It's not just a "tach" for suckin' air.

If you want to get stupid, creative/experimental about it...
Tape over body/door/hood/cowl seams, lose the antenna, find smaller, more aero mirrors, cut louvres in the trailing face of your front fenders, install vortex generators, dump the auxiliary lights and brackets, add a HUGE cone to the rear end...
Anything that sticks out into the wind - lose it, tuck it in or cover it smoothly. I can't say what to do about front bumpers...compromises are inevitable.
The strangest thing about aero-fluid dynamics is...what seems intuitively correct can be completely and adversely wrong, especially in concert with other variables.

*Technically, an incorrect term. Internal combustion engines do not suck in air. It is forced in by atmospheric pressure, unless blown or turbo-ed.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 08:16 PM   #6
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddie View Post
*Technically, an incorrect term. Internal combustion engines do not suck in air. It is forced in by atmospheric pressure, unless blown or turbo-ed.
A internal combustion engine is a vacuum pump,so yes it does "suck in" air otherwise you'd have to use a boost gauge(positive pressure gauge).
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Unread 01-12-2014, 11:09 PM   #7
TJulius
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I made a hydrolysis chamber for my jeep. It is 7 tubes of stainless steel all smaller than the last filled with water and electricity is passed through them. The electricity causes the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen. I pump the oxygen and hydrogen in my carburetor and it aids in fuel combustion. This made my MPGs go from about 15 highway to 40 highway and it is good for the environment. Keep in mind I drive a Yj that does not have fuel emissions testers,so it would not work as well on newer jeeps. I will post pics later.
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Unread 01-12-2014, 11:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TJulius View Post
I made a hydrolysis chamber for my jeep. It is 7 tubes of stainless steel all smaller than the last filled with water and electricity is passed through them. The electricity causes the water to split into hydrogen and oxygen. I pump the oxygen and hydrogen in my carburetor and it aids in fuel combustion. This made my MPGs go from about 15 highway to 40 highway and it is good for the environment. Keep in mind I drive a Yj that does not have fuel emissions testers,so it would not work as well on newer jeeps. I will post pics later.
At what point do you offer to sell us this device?
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Unread 01-12-2014, 11:28 PM   #9
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If you want to get super technical, nothing sucks anything. The high side of a pressure differential inputs the energy needed to move the fluid. However, it's more accurate to terminology to say an internal combustion engine is a vacuum pump during intake cycle and sucks air in, rather than air is forced in, excepting forced induction vehicles. There's a reason it's called "suck-squeeze-bang-blow."

Moving on, electrolysis is energy-negative, meaning you lose the energy it generates to the process of electrolysing your hydrogen out. While hydrogen is a good alternative fuel, generally speaking, it does have a different stoichiometric combustion ratio and impairs efficiency when treated as an additive. (gasoline air-fuel ratio is 14.7:1, hydrogen air-fuel ratio is 34.3:1) I won't go too far into this, but it notably reduces efficiency to burn hydrogen as a fuel, especially if you're generating the hydrogen and adding it to a gasoline mixture. The main benefit of hydrogen in practice is its simple renewability and its chemically-guaranteed lack of carbon emissions. (Though, again, NOx emissions are increased by the necessarily higher cylinder temperatures and pressures involved in efficient hydrogen combustion)

Anyway, to improve your fuel economy in a Jeep, drive more slowly and take note of your throttle position. Ultimately, if you have to spend any money to improve your efficiency, you'll likely not get it back in savings. Your best bet is to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle, in all honesty.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
At what point do you offer to sell us this device?

Only 3 easy payments of $23.99! Think of all the money you could be saving!
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Unread 01-13-2014, 08:21 AM   #10
fastfreddie
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Yeah, cuz "suck-squeeze-bang-blow" is such a technical explanation.

To my point, a partial vacuum is created in the cylinder and the atmosphere rushes in to equalize the differential. Additionally, as it is doing so, it gains momentum. As the piston starts its journey back to TDC, before the intake valve closes, the momentum of the rushing atmosphere doesn't just stop. It continues forcing its way into the cylinder, giving a slight supercharging effect. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to close the intake at anything after BDC.

I can discuss this all day. (but I got stuff to do).

Nomenclature does not necessarily describe function. Vacuum exists in space. Partial vacuums exist on earth.

When a partial vaccum is created, something will want to equalize the differential. That something, in the case of IC engines, is the atmosphere. Given an opening to this partial vacuum, it's not drawn into the void, it forces its way in.
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Unread 01-13-2014, 08:45 AM   #11
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Do you suck on a straw to drink soda pop, or do you lower the atmospheric pressure in your mouth causing the soda pop to pass through the straw and fill your mouth thereby equalizing the pressure differential between the atmosphere and the oral cavity?

What exactly is the difference other than descriptive precision? (this is an honest question)
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Unread 01-13-2014, 10:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
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At what point do you offer to sell us this device?
I think the first scam appeared in about 1978 if memory serves. Google 'browns gas' and enjoy reading. Every time gas goes up in price HHO (same thing) threads go wild. On the off chance you defy physics, there are multiple million $ rewards offered if you produce a working system. (cliffs notes: science says no ) But then you can take the reward money and start tackling perpetual motion for more $, at which point I suggest starting on instant matter transportation.

Actually I have a trip coming up this fall that puts me on a plane for about 18 hours. So start on the transportation part first please
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Unread 01-13-2014, 10:59 PM   #13
TJulius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
I think the first scam appeared in about 1978 if memory serves. Google 'browns gas' and enjoy reading. Every time gas goes up in price HHO (same thing) threads go wild. On the off chance you defy physics, there are multiple million $ rewards offered if you produce a working system. (cliffs notes: science says no ) But then you can take the reward money and start tackling perpetual motion for more $, at which point I suggest starting on instant matter transportation.

Actually I have a trip coming up this fall that puts me on a plane for about 18 hours. So start on the transportation part first please
My system is different from HHO because the tubes are evenly spaced, so that reduces heat, wasted electricity and produces more gas. I do agree that if you had too buy one it would not be as viable but I did it as a school project and had 90% of the parts donated (about $200 in high grade stainless steel and the use of a quality TIG welder). Besides the better gas mileage I also have an increase in power.
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Unread 01-14-2014, 12:49 AM   #14
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All energy conversions are inherently entropic. They all lose a portion of the energy to thermodynamic equilibrium. There is no escaping this. To store energy in one form, you have to input more energy than you can extract. When you charge a battery (electrical to chemical conversion) it heats up. When you burn gasoline in an engine (chemical to mechanical) it heats up. When you generate electricity (mechanical to electrical) the generator heats up. Even eating food generates more heat than usable chemical energy.

The only way to see an increase in your vehicle's efficiency or performance by introducing hydrogen is to generate the hydrogen outside the vehicle using equipment not powered by the vehicle, then fill it up with the hydrogen, for metered use while driving. Even then, you pay for it with the energy you consume generating the hydrogen, presumably off the power grid.

Thermodynamic Entropy: Because Literally 90% of What your Engine Does is Get Hot
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Unread 01-14-2014, 06:04 AM   #15
fastfreddie
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Do you suck on a straw to drink soda pop, or do you...

What exactly is the difference other than descriptive precision? (this is an honest question)
By colloquial terms, yes, we suck on the straw, cuz, who wants to say, "Lower the atmospheric pressure in your mouth causing the soda pop to pass through the straw and fill your mouth thereby equalizing the pressure differential between the atmosphere and the oral cavity"?
We just say, "Suck it".

I'm no language expert, but I'd say origin of the word "suck" had something to do the sound made when we create a partial vacuum with our mouths. It doesn't describe what's going on, it attributes a word to the sound made in the process.

The easiest way I can think of demonstrating the process...
If you take a syringe and draw back on the plunger while keeping the inlet/outlet orifice capped, you create a larger volume of space for the existing air inside to reside. Bernoulli's Law and all that aside, the increased volume reduced the pressure. Now uncap the syringe. Nothing that syringe did sucked anything in, it is static, yet the atmosphere rushes in. Nothing the syringe did dynamically made that happen. It was the difference in pressure that, once exposed to the atmosphere, created a condition for the atmosphere to balance the difference.

An argument could be made stating there's no way the atmosphere could react that quickly on an engine turning 5000 RPM. Seems reasonable, but it would be wrong.

The atmosphere always presents pressure. At sea level, it's backed up by 14 miles of air in a vertical column. If you take an inch out of that column, it is immediately replaced - balancing the vacuum created.
A cubic inch of air weighs .00056041667lbs.
If you measure the weight that's on that cubic inch of air you removed, the pressure to replace it is near 500lbs and that's just on one side.

We talk about 10 lbs of boost on blowers and turbos. That's in addition to what the atmosphere provides and it's nothing compared to what the atmosphere is capable of.

Whoa, hang on, the atmosphere is only 14+psi at sea level.
Yup, on a single plane, it is. A cube has six sides.
Now how much pressure is there? 14 times 14 times 14...do that six times. Comes to about 7.5 million lbs of force exerted on that one cubic inch space, if you were to remove the air inside it.
I say "times" cuz adding it doesn't make sense. That would be 84lbs, and there's no way 84 lbs is all that's needed to create a one cubic inch vacuum.

When we create a partial vacuum, as we do when we slide a piston down a cylinder, the pressure is almost immediately and quite forcibly balanced. The atmosphere forces the balance.

My math isn't exact but the idea comes across. We don't suck anything. The "suck" is merely the sound.

In the case of lightning creating a partial vacuum, that "suck" becomes thunder.
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