VANCO DUAL MODE KNUCKLE 15" and 16" Big Brake kits! Get yours today! - JeepForum.com
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Unread 06-14-2014, 07:30 AM   #1
blackmagicbrakes
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VANCO DUAL MODE KNUCKLE 15" and 16" Big Brake kits! Get yours today!

Introducing the New
VANCO DUAL MODE KNUCKLE Big Brake kits!

The New Dual Mode Knuckle kits are available in the 15” and 16″ sizes. The New Dual Mode Knuckles are ABS Compatible, 100% Made in the USA,
come standard with New 48mm Dual Piston Calipers and they accept RCV Axles!

The NEW Dual Mode knuckles are Pre-machined to eliminate any grinding by the customer which cures any fitment issues for RCV Axle users!!

Want to upgrade from a 15” to a 16” Big Brake kit?, It’s easy with the Dual Mode Caliper mounting built into the knuckle, it allows for both kits on the same knuckle with only a rotor swap to fit inside both the 15” and 16” wheel rims.

This is a bolt in larger front rotor and dual piston caliper kit available for the following Jeep Models. These Kits will work in both modes with either the early or late unit bearings used on the Jeep Wranglers.

• 1990-2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ in all trim levels including Rubicon andUnlimited, Dana 30 and Dana 44 front axles.
• 1990* Jeep Comanche
• 1990*-2001 Jeep Cherokee
• 1993-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee
*Will fit Pre-1990 Inner “C” if they are converted to the TJ style Unit Bearings and
upper Ball Joints.

We still need to support our Loyal Customers who own or want the previous versions
of our kits and we’d like to purchase your take-off Knuckles for $100


The newly designed Vanco Dual Mode 15” Big Brake Kit Includes:
• New! Left and Right High Strength Nodular Iron Dual Mode Steering Knuckles
• New! Not Re-Man Corrosion resistant Zinc Plated 48mm dual piston Calipers
• Includes Black Magic Brake Pads for maximum stopping performance.
• New! Centric Premium Rotors (not re-manufactured)
• New! Mounting Hardware: including cotter pins, caliper saddle bolts, banjo bolts with crush washers, Instruction pack and instructions on how to sell us back your take-off knuckles.
• Optional Rotors for 16” rims are available.



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Unread 06-14-2014, 09:35 AM   #2
AngryTJ
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Sweet!

Are you saying I can simply swap out these newer knuckle's with my existing 16" kit to run RCVs?

If so do you sell the knuckles seperately?
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Unread 06-14-2014, 09:51 AM   #3
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTJ View Post
Sweet!

Are you saying I can simply swap out these newer knuckle's with my existing 16" kit to run RCVs?

If so do you sell the knuckles seperately?
Yes, a simple knuckle swap is all it takes. Now, as you can figure out pretty quickly we've got to have a few parameters in place so we can help existing customers. We are working on a trade-in program to nail down the details to help you all out that want to upgrade.

Initially we are looking at a high deposit to get your knuckles back so we can refurbish them for someone else. Or, we can have you send them in first if you can put the rig idle for a few days and then we've got to nail down the price difference.

The reason for all the BS is we are not going to sell just the knuckles by themselves and we will only do this upgrade for existing customers.
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Unread 06-14-2014, 09:34 PM   #4
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Lookie! Lookie!


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Unread 06-14-2014, 09:51 PM   #5
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The New Dual Mode Knuckles are ABS Compatible, 100% Made in the USA, and
come standard with New 48mm Dual Piston Calipers and they accept RCV Axles!
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Unread 06-15-2014, 08:50 AM   #6
SchizophrenicMC
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My question is, what pads and rotors are compatible with the respective kits? If I buy this, can I buy replacement rotors and pads at the parts house, or am I roped in to some proprietary pad shape and friction material? And while high-performance brake pads are awesome and all, sometimes you just need some run-of-the-mill pads. The main detractor, at least in ZJ brakes, is not choice of friction materials, but the puny size and available clamping force of the existing calipers.

So, are these made from an existing part number's specification, or are they proprietary?
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Unread 06-15-2014, 08:59 AM   #7
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
My question is, what pads and rotors are compatible with the respective kits? If I buy this, can I buy replacement rotors and pads at the parts house, or am I roped in to some proprietary pad shape and friction material? And while high-performance brake pads are awesome and all, sometimes you just need some run-of-the-mill pads. The main detractor, at least in ZJ brakes, is not choice of friction materials, but the puny size and available clamping force of the existing calipers.

So, are these made from an existing part number's specification, or are they proprietary?
Every single aspect of the pads, rotors, and calipers including the mounting bracket has an off the shelf OEM equivalent.

I've not found a single instance where run of the mill pads were a requirement for anything except getting off the trail and back to the city because your buddy tossed the good stuff into the bottom of the lake because he didn't like how you looked at his girlfriend.

Also, clamping force is only a small, very small part of the equation. The ZJ caliper only has a slightly smaller piston surface area than these 48's do. The 48's have a slightly smaller pad surface area so logic would seem to be that with a smaller pad area and only a slightly larger piston area, all other things being equal, the braking response would be similar. It's not.
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Unread 06-15-2014, 05:24 PM   #8
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Budget and availability are concerns of extreme importance. Sometimes I have $40 to spend on brake pads and I need them right now, so I go to the parts house because I don't want to buy expensive high-performance pads and wait for them to ship out. The parts house brand ceramic pads also don't have any break-in period and work right out of the box.

And so, tell me, if the brakes you're offering are on smaller pads and overall surface area, what's the benefit to buying this kit? Where does the braking performance come from? Is it just the stickier pads? If that's the case, why don't I just buy EBC pads for my ZJ calipers and call it a day? I can't imagine the bigger rotors (if you're even getting the bigger rotors) do too much for the performance on their own either.

What is the braking performance like with this kit? Has it been tested with various pad materials?

I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that I work in auto parts and these are really relevant questions, especially when my budget comes into play. Can I justify a $1,000 big brake kit? Are the performance gains substantial enough for that? Or does it really come down to how much more effective the pads that come with the kit are?
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Unread 06-15-2014, 06:49 PM   #9
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Bigger Rotors and More!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
I can't imagine the bigger rotors (if you're even getting the bigger rotors) do too much for the performance on their own either.

Bigger Rotors, These are for the 16" Kit

If you want a FREE 15" or 16" New Dual Mode Knuckle Big Brake Kit, you can send me 13 sets of usable Take Off Knuckles and I'll ship one out to any State in the USA.
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Unread 06-15-2014, 08:49 PM   #10
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizophrenicMC View Post
Budget and availability are concerns of extreme importance. Sometimes I have $40 to spend on brake pads and I need them right now, so I go to the parts house because I don't want to buy expensive high-performance pads and wait for them to ship out. The parts house brand ceramic pads also don't have any break-in period and work right out of the box.
Preparation is key. If you are worried about having pads when you are low on money, buy a spare set when you aren't low on money and toss them on the shelf.

Quote:
And so, tell me, if the brakes you're offering are on smaller pads and overall surface area, what's the benefit to buying this kit? Where does the braking performance come from? Is it just the stickier pads? If that's the case, why don't I just buy EBC pads for my ZJ calipers and call it a day? I can't imagine the bigger rotors (if you're even getting the bigger rotors) do too much for the performance on their own either.
My point was and is that even though the surface areas appear to be similar, that is where the similarities end. The single piston in the stock caliper only covers about 50% of the pad and the pad flexes under hard braking which results in an uneven distribution of clamping pressure across the face of the pad. It is far more efficient to use a pair of pistons and cover most of the pad and distribute the clamping force very evenly.

The caliper design also comes into play. A caliper with a less than robust bridge will flex open and again not distribute the force evenly. It's fairly easy to note the symptoms once you know what to look for. If you push on the brake pedal with moderate pressure and you get decent braking and then as you push harder the braking response doesn't increase in a very linear fashion, you are likely the victim of deficiencies in the brake components design.

The dual piston caliper in the pics you see has a very robust bridge and there are stiffeners across it to even further increase rigidity across it. That leads to a very even distribution of the clamping force and resistance to flexing open. I've run that very same caliper on a system that generates 2500 psi and the only thing that happens is the rig stops faster when you push harder.

As far as the rotor size, that is simple. The distance from centerline of the axle all other things being equal is nothing more than a lever. The longer the lever, the greater the braking force.

Quote:
What is the braking performance like with this kit? Has it been tested with various pad materials?
Performance is outstanding. As far as testing goes, yes, I've tested many compounds and pads. Hawk, EBC in several grades including Blue, Yellow, Red and Green, Morse, Posi-quiet in 104, 105, and 106 compounds, Axxess (not sure on spelling and don't feel like looking it up), Napa Severe Duty Red Label, Napa Specials with the two different compounds for inner and outer pads, Performance Friction x 2 compounds and several others.

I've also tested several grades of rotors and these are the best bang for the buck. Good value, predictable performance, low defect and attrition rate, and they benefit from center split core castings which distribute the heat evenly from the face of the rotor much better than the cheaper side split cores.

Quote:
I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that I work in auto parts and these are really relevant questions, especially when my budget comes into play. Can I justify a $1,000 big brake kit? Are the performance gains substantial enough for that? Or does it really come down to how much more effective the pads that come with the kit are?
If it was just pads and rotors that made the difference, I wouldn't have developed the kits for Vanco. It isn't any more difficult than that.
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Unread 06-15-2014, 09:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Preparation is key. If you are worried about having pads when you are low on money, buy a spare set when you aren't low on money and toss them on the shelf.



My point was and is that even though the surface areas appear to be similar, that is where the similarities end. The single piston in the stock caliper only covers about 50% of the pad and the pad flexes under hard braking which results in an uneven distribution of clamping pressure across the face of the pad. It is far more efficient to use a pair of pistons and cover most of the pad and distribute the clamping force very evenly.

The caliper design also comes into play. A caliper with a less than robust bridge will flex open and again not distribute the force evenly. It's fairly easy to note the symptoms once you know what to look for. If you push on the brake pedal with moderate pressure and you get decent braking and then as you push harder the braking response doesn't increase in a very linear fashion, you are likely the victim of deficiencies in the brake components design.

The dual piston caliper in the pics you see has a very robust bridge and there are stiffeners across it to even further increase rigidity across it. That leads to a very even distribution of the clamping force and resistance to flexing open. I've run that very same caliper on a system that generates 2500 psi and the only thing that happens is the rig stops faster when you push harder.

As far as the rotor size, that is simple. The distance from centerline of the axle all other things being equal is nothing more than a lever. The longer the lever, the greater the braking force.



Performance is outstanding. As far as testing goes, yes, I've tested many compounds and pads. Hawk, EBC in several grades including Blue, Yellow, Red and Green, Morse, Posi-quiet in 104, 105, and 106 compounds, Axxess (not sure on spelling and don't feel like looking it up), Napa Severe Duty Red Label, Napa Specials with the two different compounds for inner and outer pads, Performance Friction x 2 compounds and several others.

I've also tested several grades of rotors and these are the best bang for the buck. Good value, predictable performance, low defect and attrition rate, and they benefit from center split core castings which distribute the heat evenly from the face of the rotor much better than the cheaper side split cores.



If it was just pads and rotors that made the difference, I wouldn't have developed the kits for Vanco. It isn't any more difficult than that.
And this is the set of answers I was looking for. Now I don't feel so bad about the thought of shelling out 4 digits on brakes for my 17 year old luxo-ute.
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Unread 06-17-2014, 05:16 PM   #12
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Just to clarify: "There is no core charge or set-up charges" Vanco is in the process of updating their website.
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Unread 06-18-2014, 09:47 AM   #13
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Would reaming these knuckles for 1 ton steering void the warranty?
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Unread 06-18-2014, 11:55 AM   #14
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Would reaming these knuckles for 1 ton steering void the warranty?
Why shouldn't it?
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Unread 06-18-2014, 04:59 PM   #15
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Do you live in Nevada? Save on shipping by getting your kit from 4LowParts.com they are a local vendor for the Vanco New Dual Mode Knuckle kits.
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