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Unread 05-04-2014, 05:11 PM   #46
tjcj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wurubi View Post
There has been allot of debate in other threads on here over the use of A pillar plates versus through the dash. Has PSC done any type of rollover testing to verify the plates would hold up in a rollover just as well as through the dash will? If so, I'd very much like to see results, video or pics of it if so. I am wanting a full cage and still up in the air on which one or which way to go.
At one time there was a rumor in another thread of PSC coming out with a threw the dash A- pillar bar like the poly kit.

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Unread 05-05-2014, 06:03 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhead89 View Post
Hey PSC, you can add this top to the list of tops that don't fit. The Bestop Super Top soft top will not fit over the PSC Lazer Fit cage on a YJ. The problem is, the rear hoop extends back too far, and won't allow the rear window to be zipped closed. So, the only way to make this particular top fit, is to lose the rear hoop and all its supporting bars. I don't have a back seat, so its not a safety concern for me, but still, I've got a lot of cutting and grinding to do.
Thanks for the info. We'll make a note of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wurubi View Post
There has been allot of debate in other threads on here over the use of A pillar plates versus through the dash. Has PSC done any type of rollover testing to verify the plates would hold up in a rollover just as well as through the dash will? If so, I'd very much like to see results, video or pics of it if so. I am wanting a full cage and still up in the air on which one or which way to go.
We would have to intentionally roll a Jeep in order to test that out. Can we borrow yours? LOL...seriously though, we agree that a continuous A-pillar tube that goes straight down through the dash to the floor, would be marginally stronger than the plate style A-pillars we use in our cage kits. That's why you haven't seen us wade into those threads to argue against that point. That's also why we don't recommend our A-pillars for racing use, and why the racing and competition rigs we've built ourselves use full-tubular A-pillars.

However, a piece of railroad track would be even stronger than .120 wall tubing. So why not make the cage out of railroad track? Of course that's a silly question with obvious answers. But it does illustrate a point: that there are compromises and reasons you would choose any product, material or design versus others. DOM tubing is "strong enough" that you don't need to go to the extra hassle, added weight, strange looks, etc that it would take to build the cage out of railroad track. Similarly, the plate style A-pillars, in our opinion, for most uses are strong enough to provide adequate protection to the occupants in just about any rollover situation under normal 4-wheeling conditions, at the speeds we typically see on trail runs versus racing. And anecdotal evidence has borne that out, as we've received lots of feedback from happy customers who have survived rollovers in their Jeeps equipped with our cages.

There are those who have argued vehemently in those threads that a cage like ours is worse than no cage at all, as according to them it gives the driver a false sense of security. But I think that depends on the driver. Just like our body armor won't make a Jeep invincible against the rocks if the driver is determined to use the Jeep as a wrecking ball, our cage probably isn't the best choice if you drive your rig like you're Shannon Campbell at KOH. If you're doing 80 through the whoops and lose control and cartwheel for a few hundred yards, you'd probably want a cage that's all tubular, and probably even chromoly, and with even more structural members than ours or a typical aftermarket cage provides. But if you're a regular Jeeper who drives normal trails, at normal speeds, but takes the occasional risk and needs extra protection from the typical rolls, flops and lean-overs that we see on any average run, then our cage A-Pillars will serve you well.

Those who are most vocal about our style of A-Pillar in those threads like to speculate about the plates collapsing like scissors and cutting your legs off. We haven't seen that happen, and frankly its not that likely, at least with our A-pillars. Ours aren't just a flat plate bolted to the floor and welded to the cage tubes up by the windshield. They have vertical bends and gusseting to give them extra strength in multiple planes, and remember they're made of 3/16" thick plate (most cages, including the remainder of our cages, are made with .120" wall tubing, less than 1/8" thick). Of course the shape of round tubing inherently provides more strength than flat plate, but its not like these are made of tinfoil. Also, consider that our A-pillars are not only bolted to the floor (and to a frame tie-in if you go that route, or through our Rocker Knockers if you install them that way), but they're also bolted to the strongest part of the Jeep's tub where they go up along where the dash meets the cowl and door posts. Plus there's a tubular cross bar just above the dash. For the A-Pillars to collapse and scissor your legs off they'd have to bring the entire tub/firewall and dash of the Jeep with them.

Again, we do concede that an all-tube A-pillar, that goes straight through the dash to the floor with as few bends as possible, is stronger than our plate A-pillars. That's why we do have plans to offer a version of our cage like that at some point (we've had those plans for years, just haven't gotten around to them yet). So we're not going to argue that our plate A-Pillars are stronger. But for many Jeepers they are the right combination of strength, ease of installation, ease of use, etc.
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Unread 05-11-2014, 02:23 PM   #48
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Soft top update! Amazingly, I was able to get the Bestop Super Top to fit into place. Leaving the pieces out in the sun for a few hours made an incredible difference. As you can see in the pictures, the rear hoop does push against the top of the back window, which made adjustment of the rear bow a bit of a challenge. Hopefully, that interference won't damage the back window over time. Anyway, I just wanted to report this development.



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Unread 05-12-2014, 09:26 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhead89 View Post
Soft top update!
Thanks Copperhead89 for adding to the knowledge base here! Yes please update us if there are any further developments. This is good info for those who are considering that top and this cage.
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Unread 05-12-2014, 11:30 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wurubi View Post
There has been allot of debate in other threads on here over the use of A pillar plates versus through the dash. Has PSC done any type of rollover testing to verify the plates would hold up in a rollover just as well as through the dash will? If so, I'd very much like to see results, video or pics of it if so. I am wanting a full cage and still up in the air on which one or which way to go.
John has the full cage
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Unread 05-12-2014, 10:55 PM   #51
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Here is a pic of the inside, showing the relationship between the top of the cage and the Bestop Super Top.

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