Official Chassis Saver Rust Preventive Truck & Auto Underbody Thread - Page 24 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 03-21-2012, 09:05 PM   #346
CountryBoysZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000GrayTJ

I am keen as well. As far as I'm concerned, Chassis Saver is useless as a rust preventative if it only lasts a couple months . I have a feeling there's going to be an argument that it wasn't thick enough or something like that, I did 2 very well covered coats plus 2 coats of topcoat

Unfortunately I have wasted my time with this product (I have another sealed quart I was going to keep for something else) and I should have known something too good to be true likely is. Should have gone with the tried and true method using a rust neutralizer and then appropriate topcoat

I am frustrated to say the least that all my hard work has to be redone (this time without having the luxury of the tub off), I would have been happy to see the paint last at least a year. Oh well, lesson learned I guess..
Maybe you should have neutralized before the CS..!? Brilliant idea if ya think about it..
I'm gonna wait for a reply and make my choice. Thinkin' about doing the prep, neutralizer, CS, Premium Plastikote Primer (with Rust Prevention) and Valspar Rust Armor flat black paint. A jeep peep that I wheel with all the time brought up maybe doin' a matte clear too. Too far..? I think so, but it dammmmmn well better not rust..! Haha

Nah, doubt I'd go that far but waiting for a reply.

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Unread 03-22-2012, 01:59 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000GrayTJ View Post
I am keen as well. As far as I'm concerned, Chassis Saver is useless as a rust preventative if it only lasts a couple months . I have a feeling there's going to be an argument that it wasn't thick enough or something like that, I did 2 very well covered coats plus 2 coats of topcoat

Unfortunately I have wasted my time with this product (I have another sealed quart I was going to keep for something else) and I should have known something too good to be true likely is. Should have gone with the tried and true method using a rust neutralizer and then appropriate topcoat

I am frustrated to say the least that all my hard work has to be redone (this time without having the luxury of the tub off), I would have been happy to see the paint last at least a year. Oh well, lesson learned I guess..
I have been thinking heavily on using this product, so I'm anxious to see an answer on this.
I don't want to wast my time and money,and have rust popping out in 6 months.
I thought it was suppose to stop rust ??
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Unread 03-22-2012, 08:42 AM   #348
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Sorry for the delay. I will be here tonight to discuss the rust through problem in detail
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Unread 03-22-2012, 03:46 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by magnetman View Post
Sorry for the delay. I will be here tonight to discuss the rust through problem in detail
I hope so, I just bought 2 quarts and am getting ready to do my frame, control arms and axles. Now I'm a little worried.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 08:36 PM   #350
inovermyhead2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000GrayTJ View Post
I used Chassis Saver last August on the frame for my TJ, and I must say after only half a year (the majority of that being winter mind you) it looks like I am going to have to repaint most of it . Magnet, if you have any advice as to what I may have done wrong I'd appreciate it.

I started off with a knotted cup and knocked off all the loose rust as per the instructions. For the areas that still had the factory coating/bare metal I used 60 Alum. Oxide and an orbital. Here's what it looked like before..


after-ish, I cleaned out all the loose scale. I even went through with a an air chisel/hammed and cleaned everything out.


First coat I layed down with a brush, only used a VERY little bit of Xylene (whichever it calls for) to help get it into all the tight spots. I must admit, it was one of the coolest products as far as application. For the second coat, I thinned it a bit and sprayed it, again making sure to get it everywhere.



before topcoat

and after, I used 2 coats of Plastikote Epoxy Chassis and Rollbar paint.


I thought it turned out pretty well, I had the Jeep on the road by winter so it was a perfect time to test out the paint job. As the winter went on, I could see the common areas starting to "leak" rust a bit. I tried to keep it washed as often as possible the get the salt and sand off, even tho Chassis Saver is supposed to be deal with that stuff. Either way, only about half a year later my frame is starting to look like ****. I was hoping that this paint would handle the harsh climate I live in (almost too good to be true), but I wouldn't mind it lasting a bit longer at least. It seemed at the beginning it help up pretty well, and covered very well.

Here's what I'm left with now..

I have a fair amount of experience with chassis saver and from the pictures you posted, I can tell you with some certainty the root of your problem. Yes Chassis Saver is designed to be applied directly over rust, BUT, if there is even a pin hole in the surface, it will allow moisture and oxygen to infiltrate and creep rust. That being said, surface prep is key. Yes, in most cases, a wire wheel or even a simple wire brush will do if it is a "tight" rusted surface. The problem becomes when the rusty surface is raised and flaky like yours is, that more prep needs to be done, ie, break out the grinder. The idea being, the smoother the surface, the less pits and raised areas there will be. It becomes difficult to be sure that the surface is completely sealed with the chassis saver when the rusted areas are raised like yours. To the eye, they may appear to be, but more likely, not. Like I said, even a pin hole will negate the protection of the coating. Also, just about any coating will have a certain amount shrinkage during the curing process as the solvents disperse. The best example of this that I can think of is if you took a sheet of paper and held it in both hands and stretched it across the corner of a wall, with enough tension, the paper will tear at the corner of the wall. On a microscopic level, paints and coatings do the same thing. The shrinkage of the coating would take the place of the tension that your hands apply to the sheet of paper. When you have high spots and rough jagged edges, while the product dries and "shrinks" it can cause microscopic flaws in the surface not visible to the naked eye. That is one of the reasons why you want the smoothest surface you can create before you apply the product. I'm fairly confident that if you hit the affected areas with a grinding wheel to smooth them out and re coat with the chassis saver, you problems will be solved. The area where the coil spring perch is difficult at best to get in there with a grinder, but a dremel tool would work. These products are not miracle workers, you have to help them achieve their best with a little elbow grease. I hope this helps.
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Unread 03-22-2012, 09:13 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inovermyhead2 View Post
I have a fair amount of experience with chassis saver and from the pictures you posted, I can tell you with some certainty the root of your problem. Yes Chassis Saver is designed to be applied directly over rust, BUT, if there is even a pin hole in the surface, it will allow moisture and oxygen to infiltrate and creep rust. That being said, surface prep is key. Yes, in most cases, a wire wheel or even a simple wire brush will do if it is a "tight" rusted surface. The problem becomes when the rusty surface is raised and flaky like yours is, that more prep needs to be done, ie, break out the grinder. The idea being, the smoother the surface, the less pits and raised areas there will be. It becomes difficult to be sure that the surface is completely sealed with the chassis saver when the rusted areas are raised like yours. To the eye, they may appear to be, but more likely, not. Like I said, even a pin hole will negate the protection of the coating. I'm fairly confident that if you hit the affected areas with a grinding wheel to smooth them out and re coat with the chassis saver, you problems will be solved. The area where the coil spring perch is difficult at best to get in there with a grinder, but a dremel tool or even a chisel and hammer to chip it off would work. These products are not miracle workers, you have to help them achieve their best with a little elbow grease. I hope this helps.
I definitely agree with you, in hindsight another couple coats would've definitely helped the situation. After using it on a few other spots I did notice that it it works the best when it is fulled sealed and bonded to itself (ie not painted on a flat surface with an edge taped off). There wasn't very much as far as info in the instructions that said anything other than not to lay it on too thick, etc. Which is why I made sure to apply it in fairly thin coats (apparently should have done more).

For the record it looks a lot rougher in the pics than it actually was, some areas were definitely worse than others and there doesn't seem to be any correlation between the roughness and where the rust has come through. Nearly the whole thing was gone over w/ 60 grid which evened it out pretty well. I definitely did not skimp out on the prep and would go as far as to say I did more than the average person would, I work for Jeep resto shop and spent several more hours on mine than I would for the average frame resto

Either way let it be a lesson learned to anyone who's looking into this stuff. I don't have the motivation to grind and paint my frame again but might look at it in the fall. I still have a quart left over..
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Unread 03-23-2012, 05:58 AM   #352
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I thought magnetman would have been here by now to tell me how full of crap I am.
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Unread 03-23-2012, 06:32 AM   #353
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Sit tight I'm writing. I'm the one that's going to get accused of being full of it
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Unread 03-23-2012, 06:37 AM   #354
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I've been reading a lot before commenting on this and it's clearly an issue that needs to be addressed. Of all the cases/complaints I have personally been involved with and can find records on from the past, most happened on vehicles in the north east, Illinois, Michigan or Canada. The common factor seems to be areas where salt and chlorides are used on the roads.

If you scour the web for complaints on rust through of chassis related coatings you find similar information and people swearing off whatever product they used as "no good" or "screw that procedure" they're gong to sandblast next time and go with epoxy primer and Imron style paint for frames and similar projects. Full coverage of the rust is one aspect of successfully stopping it but this concerns me to a greater degree

Here's what I found that is pretty damn interesting. Now the question is what to do about it? Just skim through this to the parts that talk about salts and what they do in combo with paints/coatings.

http://www.chlor-rid.com/saltinfo/solublesalts.php
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Unread 03-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #355
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Do the instructions tell you to clean the surface WITH A SOLUBLE SALT REMOVER ?
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Unread 03-23-2012, 09:48 AM   #356
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Do the instructions tell you to clean the surface WITH A SOLUBLE SALT REMOVER ?
No they don't
Soluble salt removal has only been talked about in the paint industry where infrastructure painting is involved, bridges, overpasses, etc

I have never seen it even discussed in automotive
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Unread 03-23-2012, 10:14 AM   #357
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dosent the package say 3 - 5 coats? or 3 good coats reccomended by eric, idk, what i do know IS.

I have no bleed thru on the exterior of my jeep, where there was plenty of bare metal and it only got 1 good coat sprayed.

I do have fade, but for being parked in direct sunlight for as long as it has been. I'm impressed that it isnt primer grey by now. the fade is minimal, dark charcole or flat black. Plus as it fades, it seems to lay down smoother if that makes sense, I've got some areas that look down right show quality, that I could see my obvious sanding marks thru. (monstaliner over in the future i sanded for adhesion not pretty)


on a side note whatever rough country paints there **** with has bled thru, and my solid dif cover drain plug rusted. which is gay.
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Unread 03-23-2012, 11:09 AM   #358
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No they don't
Soluble salt removal has only been talked about in the paint industry where infrastructure painting is involved, bridges, overpasses, etc

I have never seen it even discussed in automotive
Sounds like something I should consider,because I'm in Michigan and they use a lot of salt here in the winter.
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Unread 03-23-2012, 12:00 PM   #359
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Any examples of a soluble salt remover? Maybe something like simple green? My custom rear bumper is looking bad now after using silver CS on it. It had gone through a winter without any coating prior to application. Front bumber in black is fins, but was covered prior to a winter exposure. Had planned on redoing the rear in black now anyway.
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Unread 03-23-2012, 12:09 PM   #360
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My experience here in WI on my Jeep:
Rust in small spots have appeared on my TJ rear crossmember it was only coated from the outer visible side but not from underneath.
My DIY front bumper made of clean steel, fully primed with CS and topped with Rustoleum shows no sign of rust.
Exposure to winter salts and chloride being the same if not more on that front bumper.

I suspect there is better protection when all sides are well coated in CS.

If we could get a method of coating CS on the insides of a frame. I am going to at least try the Eastwood frame internal spray.
http://www.eastwood.com/internal-fra...ay-nozzle.html
Then work on the outer frame with CS modifying procedure if any changes come out in this discussion.
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