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Unread 10-21-2009, 07:29 AM   #106
Boodyrider
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Clarifications:
No, I'm not negative. No, I'm not in therapy.

Pro result I was referring to is as applied by pro process; cost 2-4 times what yours is, greater film thickness. Numbers I heard were 8 gallons to a truck bed discounting solvent volume. So comparable cost per thickness/volume, but they apply it for ya.

Reason for interest in sprayable is the silly amount of product 'wasted' simply to coat the roller. Yours is thick, but is it too thick to spray with a shutz gun? How about an undercoating gun?

Reason for concerns about heat are I have a belly-up... meaning far more heat gets trapped between my skid plate and my floor, since both drivetrain and exhaust run in a far more confined and enclosed area than a stock jeep.

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Unread 10-21-2009, 09:47 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetman View Post
Are you talking bout coming to Amityville?
Yeah if that's what is needed to help the crowd here I can be there today anytime after 4pm. Temp reading, measure surface area of bumpers or whatever else needed, etc. PM me your # I'll give you a call if you want to work out a time/directions.
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Unread 10-21-2009, 10:31 AM   #108
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Here are a few questions, ideas, or thoughts. Classify as you wish!

1. Most Jeepers want thicker coverage on the floors and back bed to last longer. Thinner coatings on the vertical surfaces. How is the durability of a thicker coat vs a thin coat? I'd like as much protection on my floorboards as possible. Is 1/4" realistic or is it overkill for Monstaliner?

2. You have established the pickup kit is 2 gallons. Marketing-wise, renaming that as the Original Monstaliner package for pickups or something like that. This way your existing market knows it's the same, just renamed and differentiated from your other 'kits' like the 1.25 gallon Jeep Kit or the 2 quart Touch Up/Trim Kit (or whatever size you end up selling as a kit).

That differentiation matters and if priced accordingly, can make you an attractive option to Raptor, Herc, or Rhino in the DIY markets.

LineX is always professionally installed so I'm not considering that here in this DIY market.

3. Colors are nice and hopefully adding tintable paint and removing the black doesn't alter the chemistry or quality of the applied product.

4. Marketing-wise, compare your product to the ones I listed above as they are the most common. Subject them to normal conditions (temps, usages, coverage area, etc). Where your product differs for the better, spell it out and keep it simple. Where it is worse, explain why and what, if anything, can be done to mitigate that weak point. Photograph and compare - showing empirical (quanitifiable) values. THEN compare to extremes such as temperatures.

For example, "Herc, Rhino, and Monstaliner all maintain their form under normal operating conditions. But when subjected to slow offroad action, transmission temperatures jumped. In this situation, Herc did......, Rhino did ....., but Monstaliner stayed solid enough to provide protection."

If there are any insulating qualities, I'd hype them. You mentioned ceramics in the product - that may be a differentiation you can sell, if you can validate it against the competition.

5. A sprayable version would make it much easier and faster to sell, but I understand the constraints you have. Just keep that in mind as you market this. Many Jeepers have air tools/compressors and the spray method simply provides additional ease of installation - key for DIY'ers!

6. Promote the fact that this product is NOT new, but new to the Jeep/offroad community. I'd suggest trying this on things like John Deere Gators, quads, etc. They would be a an ideal market for a smaller kit. That smaller, cheaper kit would be used in similar ways, and give a good entry point into the offroad market at a competitive price point.

7. As mentioned before, price point will be a huge sticking point (no pun intended) for Jeepers. We do tend to things as inexpensively as possible. That said, many will pay for quality, but only once it is proven. This is another reason why a Jeep specific kit (and priced to reflect the smaller size) with data points that reflect how Jeeps drive/heat and how it endures in an offroad environment is critical for success in this market.

I run a suspension set up that I had never heard of before owning a Jeep. But reviews from literally 1000's of people on various Jeep sites say it is one of the best. I paid for it, but am VERY happy with my decision. I'm originally from Missouri, and as their motto says, "SHOW ME!"

Make a name in this market, and you'll find a loyal following.

I'm in Alabama, or I'd be willing to have my Jeep up there for some lining as well. Black is a great color for liner, but my Jeep is dark green (paint code PGF) and I've thought about a matched color as well.

Good luck with all of this!
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Unread 10-21-2009, 10:51 AM   #109
rottenpuppets
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Guys I'm going to the Magnet Paint shop/lab later today. I'll bring my camera and get footage of whatever you guys are looking to see, assuming it's allowed by their staff (obviously no ingredient list for the special sauce haha).

More importantly, What measurements do you all want taken, where do you want heat temps taken via IR, etc. My drive there will be 20 min with a stop for coffee so the Jeep will be amply warmed up for typical temps. If you guys give me a list of parts you want accounted for (i'm a stock TJ basically) to coat I will make sure they measure it ALL for the greater good of Jeepkind.
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Unread 10-21-2009, 11:07 AM   #110
erickpl
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20 minutes is not really enough time for a good warmup. I think we need to get some guys in AZ to try this product! THAT will be a good stress test. Perhaps get some to Jerry or one of his wheeling friends to try it out at the Hammers.
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Unread 10-21-2009, 06:12 PM   #111
rottenpuppets
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Hey guys got back from the Magnet Paint shop a little while ago. Thanks for having me. Really cool product some of the main things I noticed in what I saw was that 1) It had a minimal odor compared to other products. 2) It was a much thicker product than everything out there now in it's raw, before catalyst form. 3) The roller itself may effect how it lays onto the metal. Checking out the roller first hand, and then the samples, I think that due to it's thickness if you used a roller with a different PPI it would look different when drying. 4) There are no chunks in it like other products that settle and need restirring so you stir once to activate and you're ready to go.

They will be doing a bunch more tests and trials in the future that sounded cool and just what the community was asking for but that's for them to divulge when they are ready.

Oh and it took me more than 30min to get there because I left @ 4 and here on Long Island that means it's already rush hour and working @ home for so long now I forgot that and got shafted.. But it was nice enough to drive with the top down both ways so that made up for the traffic
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Unread 10-21-2009, 07:33 PM   #112
magnetman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boodyrider View Post
Clarifications:
No, I'm not negative. No, I'm not in therapy.

Pro result I was referring to is as applied by pro process; cost 2-4 times what yours is, greater film thickness. Numbers I heard were 8 gallons to a truck bed discounting solvent volume. So comparable cost per thickness/volume, but they apply it for ya.

Reason for interest in sprayable is the silly amount of product 'wasted' simply to coat the roller. Yours is thick, but is it too thick to spray with a shutz gun? How about an undercoating gun?

Reason for concerns about heat are I have a belly-up... meaning far more heat gets trapped between my skid plate and my floor, since both drivetrain and exhaust run in a far more confined and enclosed area than a stock jeep.
I was kidding about the therapy.

It's hard to compare "PRO spray" Rhino or Line-X type install to Monstaliner, Raptor or any DIY product.
Yes they use 5 gals up to 8 gallons which translates into much higher film thickness.
By the way, there is NO SOLVENT in these products we are now discussing.
Most are sprayed using heat to lower viscosity and the 2 components merge at the spray gun through hoses.

Raw materials for those products cost much less than Monsta or Raptor type ingredients and the installers make most of their money selling labor and not the chemicals.

Shutz is an undercoating type gun. I sprayed Monstaliner through shutz and it still needs to be thinner. I'm going to make it work.

I'll let you know how much liquid a roller holds next week and I'll have some heat resistance data to discuss as well

Magnetman
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Unread 10-21-2009, 08:32 PM   #113
magnetman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
Here are a few questions, ideas, or thoughts. Classify as you wish!

1. Most Jeepers want thicker coverage on the floors and back bed to last longer. Thinner coatings on the vertical surfaces. How is the durability of a thicker coat vs a thin coat? I'd like as much protection on my floorboards as possible. Is 1/4" realistic or is it overkill for Monstaliner?
1/4" is overkill mainly because it will be too costly... but you just gave this mad scientist a new idea. 1 full heavy coat on verticals and 2 good coats on horizontal would be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
2. You have established the pickup kit is 2 gallons. Marketing-wise, renaming that as the Original Monstaliner package for pickups or something like that. This way your existing market knows it's the same, just renamed and differentiated from your other 'kits' like the 1.25 gallon Jeep Kit or the 2 quart Touch Up/Trim Kit (or whatever size you end up selling as a kit).

That differentiation matters and if priced accordingly, can make you an attractive option to Raptor, Herc, or Rhino in the DIY markets.
LineX is always professionally installed so I'm not considering that here in this DIY market.
We already have single gallons with catalyst. So If we just pack quarts like the Boody Man suggested it should work for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
3. Colors are nice and hopefully adding tintable paint and removing the black doesn't alter the chemistry or quality of the applied product.
Not really a problem. Will just take time to make sure it works correctly. Polymers don't change just some pigments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
4. Marketing-wise, compare your product to the ones I listed above as they are the most common. Subject them to normal conditions (temps, usages, coverage area, etc). Where your product differs for the better, spell it out and keep it simple. Where it is worse, explain why and what, if anything, can be done to mitigate that weak point. Photograph and compare - showing empirical (quanitifiable) values. THEN compare to extremes such as temperatures.

For example, "Herc, Rhino, and Monstaliner all maintain their form under normal operating conditions. But when subjected to slow offroad action, transmission temperatures jumped. In this situation, Herc did......, Rhino did ....., but Monstaliner stayed solid enough to provide protection."

If there are any insulating qualities, I'd hype them. You mentioned ceramics in the product - that may be a differentiation you can sell, if you can validate it against the competition.
Great ideas! I'm taking notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
5. A sprayable version would make it much easier and faster to sell, but I understand the constraints you have. Just keep that in mind as you market this. Many Jeepers have air tools/compressors and the spray method simply provides additional ease of installation - key for DIY'ers!
I agree. Spray will be worked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
6. Promote the fact that this product is NOT new, but new to the Jeep/offroad community. I'd suggest trying this on things like John Deere Gators, quads, etc. They would be a an ideal market for a smaller kit. That smaller, cheaper kit would be used in similar ways, and give a good entry point into the offroad market at a competitive price point.
More great ideas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
7. As mentioned before, price point will be a huge sticking point (no pun intended) for Jeepers. We do tend to things as inexpensively as possible. That said, many will pay for quality, but only once it is proven. This is another reason why a Jeep specific kit (and priced to reflect the smaller size) with data points that reflect how Jeeps drive/heat and how it endures in an offroad environment is critical for success in this market.

I run a suspension set up that I had never heard of before owning a Jeep. But reviews from literally 1000's of people on various Jeep sites say it is one of the best. I paid for it, but am VERY happy with my decision. I'm originally from Missouri, and as their motto says, "SHOW ME!"
I appreciate the analisys and helpful suggestions! And I've have heard the MO slogan many times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
Make a name in this market, and you'll find a loyal following.
I agree from seeing what goes on here in a short time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
I'm in Alabama, or I'd be willing to have my Jeep up there for some lining as well. Black is a great color for liner, but my Jeep is dark green (paint code PGF) and I've thought about a matched color as well.

Good luck with all of this!
My wife is from Cullman, AL
I'm down there at least 2x yearly

Magnetman
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Unread 10-21-2009, 09:07 PM   #114
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You are quite correct in your statement about this place. Jeepfoum can get a lot done in a fairly short amount of time. One of the other venders showed the complete build on their full suspension lift kit, and upgrade kit. In just 1 month, there was a pretty decent revamp, and improvements made it portability for different sizes (i.e. using a kit designed for 4" and 6", and the specific modifications needed to run a shorter 2.5" lift)

Continue keeping us upadted. I would be nice to see how little material would be needed to coat things like the tub, bumpers, and other parts. Like mentioned before, we Jeepers are cheap, and it is because our obession is expensive.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 06:29 PM   #115
magnetman
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Raptor evaluation update

Well my 2 Raptor kits arrived today. 1 Black kit and 1 kit tintable.

It was late afternoon so I shook and opened a container from each kit just to see how thick the material looks.
Everything is still considerably thinner than Monstaliner.
The can of catalyst included with each kit sounds very thin so I can only assume that after mixing both
components I'll be looking at viscosity less than 1/2 that of Monstaliner.

Now all of this means nothing right now, only initial appearance of the liquid.

Everything did smell heavily of acetone which has a VERY LOW flash point so anyone working with this material should be cautious of fire hazards.

Next week we will mix up some and see what it looks like sprayed and under the roller.
If anyone has specific questions while we are using this stuff, just post them here and we'll work on some answers.

More to come...

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Unread 10-23-2009, 08:07 PM   #116
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one way to get your name out there is a contest (or?) and offer a few kits to random forum members
I'LL be the first winner
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Unread 10-23-2009, 08:26 PM   #117
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Hey hey hey, I think I should be the first, I did help push the important questions with encouragement.

So it is nice to hear you guys are going to do a true comparison between competing products. Have you though about getting sheet metal, then coating half with monstiliner, and half with Raptor??? Then you could show thickness, texture, heat resistance, impact resistance, scratch/tear/gouge resisitance ect. ect. As for specifics, two small steel plates, maybe 2"x4"x.25" bare steel. Follow usage instructions minus the paint/primer. DO a long term test to see how long each one lasts.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 08:58 PM   #118
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I have some herculiner that we can swap out for testing if you want, im hoping to make it down this coming weekend
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Unread 10-24-2009, 01:04 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickpl View Post
20 minutes is not really enough time for a good warmup. I think we need to get some guys in AZ to try this product!
Could not agree with you more. NY right now is too cool. How much will the temp go up with the liner on versus off?
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Unread 10-24-2009, 01:56 AM   #120
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if u'd be willing to send out a quart kit i'd be more than happy to tell you how far it gets on fender flares and bumpers. or a nice discount would be appreciated.
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