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Savvy/Currie Aluminum Control ArmsROCK BOTTOM prices on LIFT KITS at Rockridge4wd!! WANT TO December Specials at Jeephut.com

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Unread 11-12-2013, 01:24 PM   #1
hyperhip
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Dealers-Prices-& Options

Just a few quick bon-fides so you won't think I'm a total noob.

1982 Wagoneer (Loaned it to my Dad & rubber fuel line broke. After the fire, a steel shell & only puddles of aluminum were all that was left)

1978 J10 (3 years rebuild, daughter found un-insured 16 year old to run into it, totaled for $150)

1989 Wagoneer (Daughter t-boned by Honda Pilot, turned Wag on it's side, Honda sized dent in frame, Wagoneer only reason she's still alive, not a scratch on her. Totaled)

1996 Grand Cherokee Laredo, Borla Cat back, K&N Cold Air (Son swears tree jumped out of someone yard in front of him, granddaughter in back seat, not a scratch on either. Totaled)

1993 Cherokee ( son found a red-light running Mustang. Mustang driver to hospital, son...not a scratch. Both cars totaled)

1992 Cherokee 2X4 ( son in process of trashing this one but only paid $650 for it)

My ride. 1989 Cherokee Laredo with 200,000+ miles, 2 inch lift, 30.5 X 15 BFGoodrich TA, Gibson cat back, high flow cat, K&N Cold Air & a death wobble that at some speeds you should remember to wear you paper underwear.

Hope there is a special place for Jeeps who give their lives for the drivers!

Now thats out of the way...I understand some indifference about the new Cherokee. The pictures make them look a little "girly". Much better in person!!! Find one and drive it. It's like setting in your living room with the TV off at 80 miles per hour. Silent!

I drive the 1989 Cherokee 200 to 600 miles per week on the job & it's my only car. Time for a new one.

Even though I've used this forum to do all sorts upgrades & repairs I've come to have a pretty high regard for many of those using it.

I'd like to open this discussion to anyone with 2 pennies to rub together on the new Cherokee. Not that at over sixty years of age I need a group consensus
on what to buy but there is a LOT of hands on, get dirty, been there kind of people I'd like to hear from.

Here are an example of questions I have.

With a brand new limited release of a new Jeep, is finding a dealer that will sell me one at $100 over his FWP (whatever the hell that is) as opposed to some figure above the MSRP a good thing or am I getting screwed?

Same dealer says any "extras" mud flaps, all weather floor mats... he'll charge me 10% above his cost.

Does anyone know if you can order "skid plates" for any model less that the Trailhawk? Why would anyone put all that rock magnet drive train under a car without plates?

I'm wide open to any number of opinions?

Oh, 4 banger or 6?
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Unread 11-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #2
merft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperhip View Post
Here are an example of questions I have.

With a brand new limited release of a new Jeep, is finding a dealer that will sell me one at $100 over his FWP (whatever the hell that is) as opposed to some figure above the MSRP a good thing or am I getting screwed?

Same dealer says any "extras" mud flaps, all weather floor mats... he'll charge me 10% above his cost.

Does anyone know if you can order "skid plates" for any model less that the Trailhawk? Why would anyone put all that rock magnet drive train under a car without plates?

I'm wide open to any number of opinions?

Oh, 4 banger or 6?
FWP is the Factory Wholesale Price which is the actual dealer cost minus the dealer holdback. So $100 over FWP is an good deal. But I would also check those numbers, it's pretty easy to calculate based on the invoice prices on Edmunds.

I would be careful with the "extras", they can also become "gotchas". Just know your pricing, invoice vs MSRP.

AFAIK, you can only get skidplates on the TH model. The other models are really only mall crawlers. There are rumblings of 3rd party skid plates but they are going to be a ways off. On top of that, I am not sure whether the non-TH models are going to have the same mount points. I would assume they would but cannot confirm.

The general consensus is go with the 6cyl if you want power, 4cyl if you mileage. The other recommendation is that the 4cyl really sucks above 3,000 feet in elevation. I would test drive engines in your situation.

If I were you, I would look at the KL as a run around vehicle with light off-roading and have some fun modding your XJ for off-roading. If not, I would not trade in the XJ, I would private party sell it.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 02:19 PM   #3
NHPATRIOT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merft View Post
FWP is the Factory Wholesale Price which is the actual dealer cost minus the dealer holdback. So $100 over FWP is an good deal. But I would also check those numbers, it's pretty easy to calculate based on the invoice prices on Edmunds.

I would be careful with the "extras", they can also become "gotchas". Just know your pricing, invoice vs MSRP.

AFAIK, you can only get skidplates on the TH model. The other models are really only mall crawlers. There are rumblings of 3rd party skid plates but they are going to be a ways off. On top of that, I am not sure whether the non-TH models are going to have the same mount points. I would assume they would but cannot confirm.

The general consensus is go with the 6cyl if you want power, 4cyl if you mileage. The other recommendation is that the 4cyl really sucks above 3,000 feet in elevation. I would test drive engines in your situation.

If I were you, I would look at the KL as a run around vehicle with light off-roading and have some fun modding your XJ for off-roading. If not, I would not trade in the XJ, I would private party sell it.
I disagree that the other models are just Mall Crawlers. If you order the Active Drive II system you get the off road suspension as well as s 2 spd PTU w/ low range and N. You don't get the rear lock the way you do on a TH granted. Other than that you are talking just tires, tow hook, and skid plates. Oh, 2 extra options on the Selec-Terrain( Rock and climb assist ). The TH is definitely more capable but I would hardly call all other Cherokees just Mall Crawlers. Lots of people like me who don't need the extreme capability of the TH but who need some 4WD ability for other reasons than off roading. I hardly crawl the Mall with my vehicles.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 05:10 PM   #4
merft
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Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
I disagree that the other models are just Mall Crawlers. If you order the Active Drive II system you get the off road suspension as well as s 2 spd PTU w/ low range and N. You don't get the rear lock the way you do on a TH granted. Other than that you are talking just tires, tow hook, and skid plates. Oh, 2 extra options on the Selec-Terrain( Rock and climb assist ). The TH is definitely more capable but I would hardly call all other Cherokees just Mall Crawlers. Lots of people like me who don't need the extreme capability of the TH but who need some 4WD ability for other reasons than off roading. I hardly crawl the Mall with my vehicles.
It was a generalization referring to the need for skid plates. I would take a non-TH into an off-road situation that required skid plates. Honestly, I probably wouldn't take my TH into a situation that required skid plates, that's what my TJ is for.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #5
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I don't know what the FWP is on these but around here the dealers aren't marking anything up. Base MSRP + options = Sticker price. I checked out Truecar.com and there are 3 dealerships near me that are participating in offering somewhere between $2000-$4000 off the MSRP and/or with incentive discounts based on the options selected. i.e. there an additional $500 off for picking two popular packages and $100 off for AMEX holders.

If FWP+$100 is < MSRP - $2-4k then good deal I would say.

As I looked at it, the discount truecar offers is basically the negotiation of the dealer fees being dropped or cut down (like transport cost or marketing costs). I'm not a good car negotiator so if I can walk in, point at a sticker price and say here is a piece of paper giving me $3k off that, I'm fairly happy. I just can't decide if the cost of a brand new, almost fully loaded KL >= the cost of a 2011+ JGC Limited/Overland that is used w/ 30-40k on the clock.

I'm going with the V6 and Active Drive II if I do pull the trigger no question. The power will be well worth it and the gas mileage is not all that bad. The cost to get the V6, Active Drive II w/ off road I believe will fair much better in the used market if ever traded in as well.

I'm just trying to decide if the Trailhawk is a better future bet and if the no HIDs is a dealer breaker or not.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #6
hyperhip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merft View Post
FWP is the Factory Wholesale Price which is the actual dealer cost minus the dealer holdback. So $100 over FWP is an good deal. But I would also check those numbers, it's pretty easy to calculate based on the invoice prices on Edmunds.

I would be careful with the "extras", they can also become "gotchas". Just know your pricing, invoice vs MSRP.

AFAIK, you can only get skidplates on the TH model. The other models are really only mall crawlers. There are rumblings of 3rd party skid plates but they are going to be a ways off. On top of that, I am not sure whether the non-TH models are going to have the same mount points. I would assume they would but cannot confirm.

The general consensus is go with the 6cyl if you want power, 4cyl if you mileage. The other recommendation is that the 4cyl really sucks above 3,000 feet in elevation. I would test drive engines in your situation.

If I were you, I would look at the KL as a run around vehicle with light off-roading and have some fun modding your XJ for off-roading. If not, I would not trade in the XJ, I would private party sell it.
Makes me feel better about the pricing. Small town in the far northwest area of the Texas panhandle.
He sells Fords. (you remember Fix Or Repair Daily or Found On Road Dead) Sorry, showing my age again.

Paid $2.70 a gallon to fill up today and felt nostalgic about my dating years when $10 filled the tank, bought two movie tickets, and hamburgers for both me & my date. That was the late 60's! (sorry, two foot of snow, uphill both ways, walking to school. Strings and sticks to play with besides our Tonka Trucks)

Hate malls my self, but still like to cut donuts early in the morning on snowy days in the parking lots. :>)

May have to re-thunk the 4 banger even though I like the gas milage. Live above 3200 ft. right now!

I'll check Edmunds, thanks. I didn't check if his fingers were crossed but best I understood "extras" were his costs.

Never had a Jeep without skid plates, thought is was a unwritten law or something unless it was a 2 X 4.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 01:07 PM   #7
NHPATRIOT
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hyperhip;

I too take the MPG into account. It is a huge factor for me with gas prices so high( and staying there ). The whole reason I sold the HEMI Ram and dropped down to a Patriot was MPG and the cost of fuel. I tow my boat a lot and the extra power of the V6 in the Cherokee is very appealing but the loss in MPG over a 2.4L has me hesitant to go with a V6 when/if I do get a Cherokee.

The MPG from the V6 is not too drastic of a difference than the 2.4L but it is lower and with me so anal about MPG these days it concerns me. I don't like the under 20 MPG city ratings of the V6 models. In non Trailhawk models you take a 2 MPG hit city and a 1 MPG hit highway on similarly optioned vehicles going with the V6 vs the 2.4L. Not a big hit but a hit.

I really want to get the Active Drive II option( to help on nasty winter boat ramps )and also the 3.2L but the MPG is kind of low. Ideally the 2.4L with the regular Active Drive I would be best where MPG is the main concern but I kind of want that Lo option in ADII. If I was getting a Trailhawk the V6 is a no brainer MPG wise but I have no interest in a TH.

Decisions decisions...

2014 Jeep Cherokee MPG:

FWD 2.4L = 22/31
4WD Active Drive I 2.4L = 21/28
4WD Active Drive II 2.4L = 21/27
Trailhawk 2.4L = 19/25


FWD 3.2L = 19/28
4WD Active Drive I 3.2L = 19/27
4WD Active Drive II 3.2L = 19/26
Trailhawk 3.2L = 18/25
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Unread 11-13-2013, 02:24 PM   #8
sfdxsm
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Why is AD2 losing any mileage? The only difference I am aware of is that is has a low setting...especially weird it loses it only at the highway level.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 06:04 PM   #9
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I don't know why either.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 06:17 PM   #10
SGilbert
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Axle ratio. They are different, but without going to the site, I don't know by how much.
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Unread 11-13-2013, 07:16 PM   #11
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Ah that would make sense.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:23 AM   #12
hyperhip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHPATRIOT View Post
hyperhip;


2014 Jeep Cherokee MPG:

FWD 2.4L = 22/31
4WD Active Drive I 2.4L = 21/28
4WD Active Drive II 2.4L = 21/27
Trailhawk 2.4L = 19/25


FWD 3.2L = 19/28
4WD Active Drive I 3.2L = 19/27
4WD Active Drive II 3.2L = 19/26
Trailhawk 3.2L = 18/25
I also worry about MPG but if I were really religious about it I'd be looking at the little Chevy Cruze Diesel 27mpg in town and a reported 50 and above in real world driving, 720 miles+ per tank.
The Grand Cherokee offers an oil burner but at a $5000 price hit, I'd NEVER make my money back unless I were a fry cook and recycled :>)

My 1989 4 liter gets 14 uphill, down hill, with the wind, against the wind, in town and out. I've installed a high flow cat, a Gibson cat back system, and a K&N Cold air system, 4 port Neon fuel injectors, & run my tires a 45 lbs. More low in grunt, faster 0-60, little higher RPM and maybe a mile per gallon. I'm still looking for that 100 mpg carb the oil companies buried in the 60's!!!☺

Someone correct me, but I've read someplace that the TH with the Jeep ll drive system, the cruse system allow speeds down to .6 mph for real rock crawling, just rubber necking, or pacing your walking!
Anyone here anything about that?
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:43 AM   #13
hyperhip
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Just a little weird aside here.
Like the DA I am, I didn't take pictures of the J10 Jeep pick up I spent three years building before my daughter did it in.
But I use a trashed picture as a identifying picture for my account.
Beside white powder coating the the front chrome and rear bumper, adding a white powder coated roll bar with a central spare tire mount across it and white power coating the steel slotted wheels (no, you real can't see that) there is one major strangeness I just knew someone would call me on. You can clearly see the change, I just thought someone would call me on it.

Anyone spot the very obvious change. I thought it was a really classy addition.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 05:24 AM   #14
NHPATRIOT
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Originally Posted by SGilbert View Post
Axle ratio. They are different, but without going to the site, I don't know by how much.
Final drive ratio changes by engine and also tow group on the V6's, not AD system, according to the Jeep site. That is what I thought at 1st as well but it doesn't appear it is actually the case. Final drive ratio does not change with ADI vs ADII alone.

2.4L ADI = 3.73
2.4L ADI w/ Tow = 3.73
2.4L ADII = 3.73
2.4L ADII w/ Tow = 3.73

3.2L ADI = 3.25
3.2L ADI w/ Tow =3.51
3.2L ADII = 3.25
3.2L ADII w/ Tow = 3.51
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Unread 11-14-2013, 05:32 AM   #15
NHPATRIOT
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Originally Posted by hyperhip View Post
I also worry about MPG but if I were really religious about it I'd be looking at the little Chevy Cruze Diesel 27mpg in town and a reported 50 and above in real world driving, 720 miles+ per tank.
The Grand Cherokee offers an oil burner but at a $5000 price hit, I'd NEVER make my money back unless I were a fry cook and recycled :>)

My 1989 4 liter gets 14 uphill, down hill, with the wind, against the wind, in town and out. I've installed a high flow cat, a Gibson cat back system, and a K&N Cold air system, 4 port Neon fuel injectors, & run my tires a 45 lbs. More low in grunt, faster 0-60, little higher RPM and maybe a mile per gallon. I'm still looking for that 100 mpg carb the oil companies buried in the 60's!!!☺

Someone correct me, but I've read someplace that the TH with the Jeep ll drive system, the cruse system allow speeds down to .6 mph for real rock crawling, just rubber necking, or pacing your walking!
Anyone here anything about that?
I worry about getting the best MPG I can out of a vehicle that suits my needs. A Chevy Cruze wouldn't suit my needs. I identify a vehicle type/class that can do what I want and that I am comfortable in and then MPG becomes a big, BIG, factor in optioning it and such.

FYI - the Trailhawk does not use the Active Drive II system. It has it's own( only available on TH models )called Active Drive Lock. It adds the ability to lock the rear axle which ADII does not plus it adds a ROCK option to the Selec-terrain knob as well as a climb assist option too.

Here are the AD systems...

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