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Unread 12-10-2013, 06:57 AM   #16
Turbozcs2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyBud View Post
I ask this because I really don't know...but what other 4x4's are primarily fwd? Are you talking about Lancers, Imprezas, etc?
He means engine is east west vs north south, so you have transaxle with some attachment to send tourque to the rear drive.

Grand Cherokee, engine is n-s, beefy 8 spd and real transfer case.

others with FWD, CRV, Rav4, subies, escape etc

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Unread 12-10-2013, 08:20 PM   #17
kens97sto171
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Subaru is not really FWD. Engine is north south. And if you get under one you will see a standard looking RWD transmission. The front wheel outputs come out the sides near the front of the trans. The front differential is integrated into the trans.
I am most knowledgeable about the older ones from the late 90's but as far as o know
Manual transmissions are lightly RW biased... with the ability to move power front and back up to about 80%.
Automatics are front biased with a computer controlled center diff that can move power front back.. but only to a max of about 50%.
There is a simple way to lock it 50/50... a switch and some resistors to fake out the computer.
Front and rear diffs are open on older ones. Some came with LSD's
the newest STI has a lockable and controllable center LSD and LSD's front and back.

Some models add wheel braking ability to move power around to where its needed.

The Subaru drive line is certainly NOT as robust as a solid axle Jeep. But they go amazingly well in slippery stuff.

The manuals are fun... you can hang the rear out and drift them. The autos tend to push... like most FWD up to a point then the rear comes around.... not a fan of this.

Just posting for ur information...

Ken
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Unread 12-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #18
LouC
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We have an older (98) Subaru Outback. Its been a good vehicle but needed more and more expensive repairs than the 98 ZJ which we bought at about the same time. The 4x4 system is very good, of all the cross over makes besides the Cherokee its probably the only one I'd consider buying. I hope they have solved their problems with head gaskets though....
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Unread 12-20-2013, 10:35 PM   #19
kens97sto171
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Head gasket issues were solved on 2002 I think.
The 2.2l was never effected.. and honestly I think the EJ22 was the best engine they made. Simple, and easy to work on.
Engine was non-interference , lifters were hydraulic and if you somehow neglected to do an oil change on time they would start to tick a little as a warning sign.
The 2.5 will run low... make no noise right up to the point it explodes.
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Unread 12-22-2013, 05:53 PM   #20
steveinmedford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon1982 View Post
The Mazda CX-5 looks amazing, but that engine is severely underpowered. They really needed to increase the power on it. If the CX-5 had over 200 hp, I think that would be towards the top of my list.
I test drove the CX-5 with the 2.5l engine. Zoom zoom. It had plenty of guts for this class vehicle.

I compared the CRV, Escape, CX-5 and after a month wait the Cherokee.

CX-5 would of been my second choice. Touring w/Bose and Sun Roof.

Obviously there was more I liked about the Cherokee. Despite no sunroof.
And the fact that I had a Wrangler for 12 years, 200K miles.
Hope the loyalty is not misplaced.
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Unread 12-24-2013, 09:13 AM   #21
Katmandu
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by 440_Magnum View Post
I'd wait until that German ZF front-drive 9-speed monster of a transmission has a more proven track record, though.

The rear-drive one for the bigger cars is doing great, but I'm always leery of anything that is primarily front-drive with a 4wd option instead of rear-drive with a 4wd option.
The rear-wheel drive transmissions are different animals and are 8 Speed. Big difference,

BTW, that 8 speed transmission JUST got recalled!

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/24/c...ission-recall/
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Unread 12-26-2013, 03:17 PM   #22
4x4kingx889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kens97sto171 View Post
Subaru is not really FWD. Engine is north south. And if you get under one you will see a standard looking RWD transmission. The front wheel outputs come out the sides near the front of the trans. The front differential is integrated into the trans.
I am most knowledgeable about the older ones from the late 90's but as far as o know
Manual transmissions are lightly RW biased... with the ability to move power front and back up to about 80%.
Automatics are front biased with a computer controlled center diff that can move power front back.. but only to a max of about 50%.
There is a simple way to lock it 50/50... a switch and some resistors to fake out the computer.
Front and rear diffs are open on older ones. Some came with LSD's
the newest STI has a lockable and controllable center LSD and LSD's front and back.

Some models add wheel braking ability to move power around to where its needed.

The Subaru drive line is certainly NOT as robust as a solid axle Jeep. But they go amazingly well in slippery stuff.

The manuals are fun... you can hang the rear out and drift them. The autos tend to push... like most FWD up to a point then the rear comes around.... not a fan of this.

Just posting for ur information...

Ken


I have never liked jap car's or any car's as a matter of fact but I have seen what they can do...I love subaru now we have a 98 outback with 289k still going strong all though the HG are going out but I would not hesitate to buy a subbie mopar and subaru FTW
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Unread 12-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #23
kens97sto171
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Most "jap" cars are not... just in case you didn't know.
Almost all the major ones are built here in the USA with mostly US parts.
Subaru has a plant in Lafayette Indiana . It on I-65 between Indianapolis and Chicago. They build the Legacy, Outback, and Tribeca.
Hyundai Sonata and Elantra are built in Montgomery Alabama
Kia Optima, and Sorrento in West Point Georgia.
Accord.. Marysville Ohio since 1984
Civic in Greensburg Indiana
Camry in Georgetown Ky
VW Passat in Chattanooga Tn.

There are some others too. Not being a smart ***.. just thought you would like to know the info.

BTW... Your head gasket issue is a common one in pre-2002 models. The gasket itself is the issue. The replacement gasket should not fail again on you.

I've had a couple Subies. Loved them. Awesome in the messy stuff..
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Unread 12-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #24
jay-h
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbozcs2003 View Post
He means engine is east west vs north south, so you have transaxle with some attachment to send tourque to the rear drive.

Grand Cherokee, engine is n-s, beefy 8 spd and real transfer case.

others with FWD, CRV, Rav4, subies, escape etc
Well the Subie is a bit of an anomaly. The engine is NS, the power flow passes through the front transaxle back to the rear diff--no messy convolutions. The flat layout also has the advantage of sitting very low in the chassis for good CG.

As far as I know, though, they don't offer 4WD-LO and they seem to be pushing that CVT. I don't trust CVTs on the road, much less off road. Too bad, otherwise it's a nice piece of engineering.
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Unread 12-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #25
kens97sto171
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I'm with you on the CVT... the Subie models seem lethargic and boring.
And they have taken most of the fun out of the base models...
Only the WRX. And coming STI have any spice left in them.
You used to be able to get the Forester XT (turbo) in a 5 SPD manual.. but the newest one gets saddled with the CVT as the only option.
I will say though I have driven a V6 Nissan Altima with the CVT and it seemed OK... also the V6 Accord was pretty fast.

I think your right about no low range... though maybe the old Brat model from the 80's had it.

With a 5 speed manual it would do OK.. the boxer has nice low end torque.
My old 96 Impreza would just idle along in gear and pull decently.
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Unread 12-28-2013, 08:06 PM   #26
jay-h
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kens97sto171 View Post
I'm with you on the CVT... the Subie models seem lethargic and boring.
And they have taken most of the fun out of the base models...
Only the WRX. And coming STI have any spice left in them.
You used to be able to get the Forester XT (turbo) in a 5 SPD manual.. but the newest one gets saddled with the CVT as the only option. ...
Wrx owners react to CVT (humor)
http://autoblopnik.com/2013/12/18/cv...mass-suicides/

Truth is though CVT problems are not just about seeming sluggish performance though that is part

Issues (at least with the currently used CVT technologies):

Downshifts: the 9 speed can jump down several gears pretty much instantly, providing a whopping boost in power when needed. CVTs have to gradually move through their ratios.

Durability: gears with minimal care last the life of a car and then some. They are efficient with almost zero lost energy. Most CVT designs use friction drive with all power running through dynamic friction with very small contact area. This is wear waiting to happen and it's only a great deal of exotic technology that keeps them from breaking down the first month.

Efficiency: There is virtually zero energy loss in gears. Same is true with dog clutches as being now used in ZF transmissions: efficient and will probably outlast the car. Since the motivation of CVTs is supposedly about efficiency this is a trouble spot ... friction drive chains and pulleys start eating up some of the efficiency they are supposedly providing. At the same time engines are getting far better with a much bigger sweet spot, so maintaining a precise RPM is not nearly so important.

Reduction Range: This has always been a problem. Whereas gear systems can have pretty much any range (the 9 speed is something like 9.5 to 1), manufacturers have struggled to improve the range of CVTs. They are getting better but NOT close to impressive

Reliablity: If you read the press reports, the problems are mostly solved yada yada... but if you read user comments on forums, there are big troubles: overheating (which dumps you into limp mode), major repairs, problems dealers can't solve etc.
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Unread 12-29-2013, 05:32 PM   #27
chartx
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As some already pointed out, for me CVT is a no no.

On top of that, I don't enjoy and believe the efficiency of small displacement + turbo combinations (aka ecoboost on escape)

And the engine should be 200hp+ min

And trying to be around 30K -+10%. Only exception might be GJ.

That leaves very few options. Cherokee and Hyundai Santa Fe (longer one, 290 hp). Santa Fe doesn't have adaptive cruise control though.

Before some says, you consider Hyundai ?!
I have a sedan from them, had zero issues so far 16K miles. They improved their cars a lot, and has good value in their products.
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Unread 12-29-2013, 06:22 PM   #28
fishgutz
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I would put the new Cherokee in the same category as the Patriot and Compass. Not really intended for off road use beyond a typical dirt fire road.
There are many class IV roads in NH that this Jeep couldn't handle.
Until there is an aftermarket 4" lift kit and mods to fit at least 32" rubber under it, it can't really be driven off road the way a stock JK can.
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Unread 12-30-2013, 10:47 AM   #29
kens97sto171
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Chartx ... you could look at the Kia Sorrento. It has pretty good offroad capability .. locking diff. and a nice V6 in it. Pretty good mileage for the size. High 20's I believe.
Its bigger than the Cherokee.
Just throwing it out there.. it gets good reviews. Also its built in the USA in West Point Georgia.
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Unread 12-31-2013, 04:39 PM   #30
grogie
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I road in a Cherokee today at the Indy new car show (Camp Jeep). I have to say that in person, it looks nice and I like it. The inside is also really nice. Wow... a lot of features and very comfortable. It also rode really nice too. I'm impressed.

My wife has a KJ that we've been talking about trading up to a Grand Cherokee Limited (with a Hemi). But I'd be okay with a Cherokee Trailhawk myself. I think Jeep is going to sell a lot of them.
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