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9 Speed Transmission Issues

27K views 70 replies 40 participants last post by  macdrgnfl 
#1 ·
We're interested in getting a new Jeep here this week. I've read that this new Cherokee's 9 speed transmission is having major issues out of the gate.

How are the new "reflashed" TCM in these new transmissions doing ?

How can one tell if the new reflash has been performed on a new Cherokee ?

What's the Code for it on the driver's side door

Any other issues with this new 9 speed transmission potential buyers should be aware of ?
 
#2 ·
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/27/2014-jeep-cherokee-transmission-production-problem/

On September 23, Automotive News reported that Chrysler had idled the second shift workers it hired just five weeks prior at its Toledo Assembly Complex to build the 2014 Jeep Cherokee. At the time, Chrysler said it had "built the critical number of vehicles we need to stock dealerships once containment is released" and did not want "to put additional strain on our logistics partners ... upon release." That reasoning was not only unusual, it didn't seem to make sense.

It appears the center of the nine-speed issue is software, not hardware.

That same day, the Detroit News ran a piece claiming workers at the Toledo factory said the halt was due to issues with the Cherokee's transmission. It put the number of already-built Cherokees needing fixes at 1,000 and said that some of the workers not laid off had been instructed "to take the Jeep on long test-drives." That made more sense. Three days later, on September 26, Automotive News reported that the 500 workers laid off had been reinstated, with engineers "speeding repairs on the SUV's powertrain software." The AN piece didn't put a number on how many units are being fixed, but it did say that 12,000 have been built and are awaiting delivery to dealers. The best it could say about when dealers will get them, however, is that "progress on a fix is being made. It's unclear when shipments to dealers will start."

It appears the center of the issue is software, not hardware - the program that controls how the engine communicates with both the ZF nine-speed transmission built by Chrysler in Kokomo, IN, and the unique disconnecting driveshaft engineered by American Axle & Manufacturing. Getting the driveline to run just like the company wants in every situation is what has led to three delays already this year, and a fourth delay is certain to come when the vehicles aren't delivered as promised at the end of the third quarter, which is Monday. (Scroll down to read more)
On our recent drive of the Cherokee, company engineers stressed how complex the new powertrain is. The engineer who gave the morning presentation on the transmission started off by saying, "This is a really, really complex transmission." When we asked about why stop/start functionality wasn't included, we were reminded of the complexity of the entire vehicle - the 2014 Cherokee is only the third vehicle to use Compact US Wide platform, the second Chrysler product with its electrical architecture, and the first to use the new 3.2-liter Pentastar V6. That, plus the tricky business of incorporating a brand-new driveline with two of its three primary and individually complex parts - the transmission and disconnecting driveshaft - developed by suppliers.

These teething issues led to the media drive event being pushed back, which in turn led to it being combined with Ram and Dodge launches. What should have been a three-day trip in Seattle focused solely on the Jeep turned into a three-day trip for three brands showcasing five vehicles. We got one day in the Cherokee with a few hours behind the wheel, and a chunk of that time was spent off-road. At the end of the day, we spent another chunk of time with an engineer to ask about the transmission - more specifically, how two of the test units seemed to perform differently, but only when we were caning them.

On our recent drive of the Cherokee, company engineers stressed how complex the new powertrain is.

In our First Drive, we wrote: "it wasn't until we started pretending the Cherokee was a Porsche 911 that we could get it swapping cogs in places we might not have chosen." It wasn't bad, it was just sluggish through certain corners. Even more specifically, the first Cherokee we drove seemed to handle our hard driving better in Normal, the second one seemed to be more agreeable in Sport. Otherwise, when we weren't belting it up a mountain, the transmission did its job flawlessly and imperceptibly. Yet we still felt we needed more time behind the wheel, time we couldn't get due to the combined program. Two runs up a canyon road in two different vehicles - in an SUV driven like a sports car, no less - and done hours apart, well, it was enough to mention but not to make a big deal about, especially with so much else to discuss. Almost no one outside of journalists and rental car jockeys will ever attempt to drive the Cherokee like we did.

We'd heard rumors of the transmission problem before the event, and we wanted to know if the units we had driven were pre-production or representative of final build. We were told it was "almost there" but still being tweaked, but our simple question turned into a lengthy chat with an engineer about the complexity of the transmission itself and its use of features like dog clutches.

"Two of the six shifting elements are dog clutches, with controls that actuate them. Dog clutches are an enabler of the packaging - [the nine-speed] takes the same space as a six-speed in its competitive set and has the same weight," we were told. "The introduction of dog clutches is a new technology, and we have a system that, by design, is hardware that needs to be in perfect harmony with software - the transmission control module needs to speak to the ECM in milliseconds, so we're trying to manage hardware durability and software performance." A quick look around the web yields white papers as recent as 2009 on the feasibility of dog clutches being "re-introduced in high volume transmissions," and a university paper promoting the study of dog clutches just two years ago.

Chrysler has to get it right, even one more delay now is better than risking the alternative.

Chrysler's got that new tech to manage, on top of the rest of the new tech in its nine-speed transmission, plus one new engine and driveline technology, along with software that needs to run the systems for two engine possibilities - software that, as we were also told, has been two years in development.

Given all of that, we can understand the delay. The Cherokee is not only a hugely important vehicle for Jeep and the Chrysler Group, we have been told that its nine-speed automatic is "the foundation for transmissions in the company." Chrysler has to get it right, and even one more delay now is better than risking the alternative - unhappy potential customers are better than unhappy actual customers. We hope they get it right soon, because even with this software issue, the new Cherokee is very good.

When we reached out to Chrysler for a comment on this story, spokesman Scott Brown offered us the following statement:
"We continue to refine the vehicle's powertrain calibration. This is the world's first application of a highly technical nine-speed transmission; on top of that, it is being mated to two new engines and three complex 4x4 systems. We will introduce the vehicle to consumers as soon as that process is complete. Our senior management has stated many times that we will only introduce a vehicle to consumers when we are completely satisfied."
 
#3 ·
Just got the new cherokee latitude ... Wonderful car great ride . I had electronic issues with some sensors not being grounded correctly but the service techs got it cleared out. I will say between gear 2 n 3 It has some lag but no harsh issues and I'm guessing it's a computer issue with timing and they will update it soon enough.
 
#6 ·
March 5,15--Have had a Cherokee limited 2wd 6cyl. for 1 yr on March 13th, had to have 3 xmission "flashes" done and now a 4th, next the check engine light came on, dealer says per Chrysler they must replace the xmission, no more computer corrections are to be done. To say the least I don't know how long I'll keep the car, loved it to start ordered all safety items but now I have ask Jeep about a buy back of the car, no longer happy w/car and would tell anyone to look hard at how it shifts and reacts before you buy. The 9 speed may not be ready for prime time yet.
 
#7 ·
There is a known issue with a C-ring in the transmission. If you get a new tranny it will be resolved for you. This transmission is getting a bad reputation from some fixable software quirks, a bum C-ring and the fact it doesn't shift like people expect it to. The later is resolved by realizing some shift patterns are trivial for the transmission to make so it favors them over the the patterns that are not. This leads drivers to ask themselves "what the heck just happened" and "why am I in this gear and not the one I expected?" So cut your SUV a break, you'll have all the known transmission issues resolved except the psychological ones that you might need to work out.
 
#8 ·
I have a 2015 TH and its been about a month now, 1k miles on the clock and have not had an issue.
I think some of the earlier builds had some issues, my biggest issue or question is I have never gotten it to go into 9th gear...lol
Dealer says, "Oh it does, you just dont notice it" BS... I watch RPM's and the indicator , never hit 9th
 
#9 ·
Update on my earlier post, dealer has replaced the torq converter and xmission, this one reacts in a total different way, when ur slowing down it does not reduce rpm and then speed up it just down shifts as expected, also does not "clunk" when u put in gear, maybe I got an early xmission I've only had it back 2 days, hope this was the fix, I understand they don't use rebuilt units, if u replace it it has to come new according to star eng. I would still tell folks to look at date of manu. mine was ordered and built Feb 14.I ordered the 6cyl,technology group,luxury group,and limited model.
 
#19 ·
My latest adventure now on top of the xmission is a seat belt recall, again its just a computer fix about 45 min but this seems to a never ending story for me. I love the safety items but am getting tired of spending so much time at dealership. May not keep this thing much longer, Jeep has offered an extended 6yr 60K warranty for $100 per yr but I doubt I'll take it, I going to be a short time owner.......
 
#23 ·
I've been watching the Cherokee situation unfold since it was first released. I'd even considered getting one. I keep being put off by the current state of affairs. If Jeep doesn't get this mess in order soon, they're going to have a real problem on their hands. Honestly, I just wish that the Jeep brand had been split from Chrysler when the latter was sold. In such I wish Toyota had bought them. I've had my '06 4Runner since January of 2012 with nary an issue. The most pressing problem was the gas cap seal went bad so there was an EVAP leak detected. I replaced the gas cap, and that was that. Honestly, the design and styling of Toyotas has always seemed a little boring to me. There's less spirit or zest to them, but at this point I find that I'm preferring having something that is reliable. Time and time again Jeep puts out vehicles with far too much unproven tech. Toyota is bad about doing the opposite, running antiquated technology into the ground in preference for reliability. If they could have joined up, I can just imagine the products we'd be getting. More cutting edge, less of the developing at a snail's pace, but holding back some of that breakneck speed, let's toss new stuff out there and let the customers iron out the kinks for us. Imagine a Jeep with Toyota reliability. The best of both worlds. Of course, this is all just hypothesizing. Waxing poetic even.

I do hope Jeep is able to get the issues with the Cherokee ironed out. It's just not looking good thus far. I still like a lot about the vehicle, even if the look takes a little getting used to. But I'm not ready to give up something that's reliable in order to have something I will always have to be praying to the Jeep gods about each time I drive it. The 4Runner, I could get in right now and drive from Colorado to Alaska and back again without even changing the oil. Sure, that's pushing things, but the darn 4.0 they run in these things is so friggin bullet-proof I doubt it'd really hurt. I wouldn't want to get in a '14-'15 Cherokee and drive it across the lower 48. Sadly, that's my current take on the state of affairs. Jeep, get it together. There are loyalists out there missing having a 7 slot grille. The only thing holding us off on buying is your failure to produce something dependable.
 
#24 ·
snow, i also am waiting for the trans issue to be solved. keep in mind, we bought an 04 grand cherokee limited brand new. so far it has a rear axle seal fixed, power steering unit replaced and now has a small oil leak. not bad for 200000 miles. forgot a line pressure sensor in the trans. i would say the quality is right on par with toyota. still runs great and should see 250000 miles with out a problem.
 
#25 ·
I've had 3 Jeeps and 1 Toyota. The upkeep of the Jeeps was easily 15x what it's been with the Toyota. That's anecdotal evidence, of course. Then the 4Runner is the newest vehicle I've owned. So we'll see how it goes as it gets on in age.

I do admit that I've lost faith in Jeep over the years. Perhaps, in time they'll earn that faith back.
 
#27 ·
I had my axles replaced and that seemed to solve the wobble problem, but I cannot be sure because at the same time they also changed the software to eliminate 2nd gear on downshifts. A combination of both of those has gotten rid of the wobble which for me occurred between 12-14 mph. So they eliminate one issue only to develop another is not a way to make a happy consumer.
 
#29 ·
The front end shaking or wobbling is due to a bad design on the front axles. My 2015 V6 does it as well. While it happens in second on upshifting, you can also reproduce it when downshifting in the 15-20 mph range when in third. My nephew is the sales manager for our dealer and has confirmed with the service manager and FCA rep that there is a Star Case on the issue and that the front axles are being redesigned. Bad news is the newly designed axles won't be available for dealers to order until Q3 (2015). They are telling people to call back in the October timeframe to see if the redesigned axles are available yet. Some people have noticed a difference in the shaking with the R01 recall, but they just reprogrammed the first through third gear timing in order to make the issue less noticeable. It's not a transmission issue.
 
#30 ·
I had filed a complaint w/jeep over all my xmission issues and was referred to the resolution center and I ask about a buy back, after about 5wks they offered to sell me a new trailhawk w/same features I have on my limited at %5 below dealer cost and all rebates, dealer said this is an employee price schedule, looked into lemon law but was told since they replaced the xmission and torq converter that was off the table. They are giving me 25K for my car and since I'm not happy w/it I guess I'll bite and see where it goes. Hope this one has a xmission that was made in 2015 and not the problem 14's.
 
#32 ·
richpal,
Have you done the latest software recall on your Trailhawk yet? Up until I wasted a whole day in the shop to do that, my Trailhawk was the best performing vehicle that I have owned. The latest recall has taken it back to what everyone complained about in 2014. Clunks, flutters, always in the wrong gear and so bad that you can't even use cruise control in the mountains. When you go around a corner it stays in 4th gear and the tranny always takes way to long to downshift.
 
#34 ·
I got a recall notice in the mail. Maybe it is a certain run production but this car was great before the new software was installed. Now it is a sluggish pig that stays in 4th gear at 5mph.
It is also causing the 4WD system to disengage on the beach. Then when I come off the beach, I have no cruise control until the next day.
 
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