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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:08 PM   #106
jonathon97xj
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Thank you Ironworker709!

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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:13 PM   #107
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Sorry I got a little fired up haha, Blew a rad in my 97 XJ today and one of the AC lines went it seems simultaneously :S and it is like -30 degrees Celsius out there today and leaving to go skiing tomorrow haha so I may be in a bitter mood today. I gladly removed my last two posts. Thanks again Ironworker, and I'm happy to be a member of the forum. I have been on here for a while, just had never posted much, but starting to get into it. Especially when I can offer some good advice because its in a field I love and have a passion for.
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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:26 PM   #108
Ironworker709
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Lol..yea..i thought the same thing when i seen the 2.90 an hour thing..lol

But on a serious note,the mods on this forum don't like personal attacks on people..its ok to Correct someone when they are wrong if you feel the need to..but they want to keep this forum alot cleaner than a few other 4x4 forums and other crazy forums where they allow personal attacks and just plain fell the need to cuss and bash...thats why this is my favorite forum..for 1 i love jeeps and 4x4's..but also like the "community" freindliness here too.

I am by far not "jumping on you're case" Jonathan..just letting you know how they do things here since you seem pretty new to here..which i actualy like because it keeps the "flaming" out of here,but you don't know how many times i had to so called"bite my lip" on things in here at times..lol..i have probably been right at the borderline of being guilty of it quite a few times...lol

I'm 50 years old as of last december..i tend to laugh more than get PO'd anymore..lol

And again..glad to have a good knowledgable person as yourself on this forum..well..at least i know i am...
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Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:41 PM   #109
Ironworker709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathon97xj View Post
Sorry I got a little fired up haha, Blew a rad in my 97 XJ today and one of the AC lines went it seems simultaneously :S and it is like -30 degrees Celsius out there today and leaving to go skiing tomorrow haha so I may be in a bitter mood today. I gladly removed my last two posts. Thanks again Ironworker, and I'm happy to be a member of the forum. I have been on here for a while, just had never posted much, but starting to get into it. Especially when I can offer some good advice because its in a field I love and have a passion for.
its all good...

c'mon down to Southeast Georgia ,its been a lil chilly here lately though..only in the 70's and 80's....lol
__________________
Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:46 PM   #110
little_Jeep
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The more I read/hear/see about welding, the more I realize how little I know.
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Unread 03-01-2011, 07:48 PM   #111
jonathon97xj
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haha I would love to! better than the winter we've been having! its ridiculous. Kinda worried about 2012 hahaha maybe all these disaster movies lately are subtle warnings! hahaha
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Unread 03-12-2011, 01:01 AM   #112
jeepfreek383
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hey ironworker, did you ever get a chance to etch those test pieces?
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Unread 03-12-2011, 01:34 AM   #113
jeepfreek383
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i dont know how many people on here actually weld for a living but i know because i do i have never once my time welding have been asked if i pushed or pulled the weld by an inspector. what i have been asked was was the surface pre heated what were the gas settings. have you done t breaks to test for porosity. did you use temp sticks to check interpass temps, stuff like that in the end it all comes down to dye checks x rays or ut's and none of them tell you how far "you penetrated" they check for sound welds. if you want to talk about etches their not done on the job maybe at test time to qual. so im my mind if your only welding stuff on your jeep dont worry so much about penetration your only dealing with 1/8 -1/4 max anyway your gonna get it unless you steal power from a neighboor half way around the block from an extention cord. i think some of us who do weld try to bring industry standards into the backyard and stir the pot for the average joe just trying to build a cage. just remember if your using a 110 welder plug directly to the receptacle and run continuous beads no tack tack tack you'll be fine
the thing that seems to be lacking in all this talk is fusion. yes you want some penetration into the base metal but penetration means nothing without proper fusion.let say your running a dual shield flux core wire "1/16" or even solid wire turn your wire speed way up and keep your heat where you normally would . that wire will punch into the base metal pretty far but because your voltage does not coinside with your wire speed you will get very poor fusion and the weld would fail. i would guess with even a 220 mig your gonna get at max 1/8 penetration with a 110 you will get maybe half that but the key is to have the two pieces fused together thats what welding is all about making two or more pieces of metal one. you want that weld to be hot enough to get down to the inner most spot of that joint and melt into it to make one piece not bridge it and make two pieces welded together
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Unread 03-12-2011, 02:59 AM   #114
Ironworker709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfreek383 View Post
hey ironworker, did you ever get a chance to etch those test pieces?
Not yet,i am currently on nightshift working 12-14 hours a night 7 days a week at a nuclear power plant overseeing all lifting,rigging and welding on the turbine floor for GE/APM,it will be a few weeks before i get the chance to do an acid etch test at home when this this outage is over with.
__________________
Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 03-12-2011, 03:01 AM   #115
Ironworker709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfreek383 View Post
i dont know how many people on here actually weld for a living but i know because i do i have never once my time welding have been asked if i pushed or pulled the weld by an inspector. what i have been asked was was the surface pre heated what were the gas settings. have you done t breaks to test for porosity. did you use temp sticks to check interpass temps, stuff like that in the end it all comes down to dye checks x rays or ut's and none of them tell you how far "you penetrated" they check for sound welds. if you want to talk about etches their not done on the job maybe at test time to qual. so im my mind if your only welding stuff on your jeep dont worry so much about penetration your only dealing with 1/8 -1/4 max anyway your gonna get it unless you steal power from a neighboor half way around the block from an extention cord. i think some of us who do weld try to bring industry standards into the backyard and stir the pot for the average joe just trying to build a cage. just remember if your using a 110 welder plug directly to the receptacle and run continuous beads no tack tack tack you'll be fine
the thing that seems to be lacking in all this talk is fusion. yes you want some penetration into the base metal but penetration means nothing without proper fusion.let say your running a dual shield flux core wire "1/16" or even solid wire turn your wire speed way up and keep your heat where you normally would . that wire will punch into the base metal pretty far but because your voltage does not coinside with your wire speed you will get very poor fusion and the weld would fail. i would guess with even a 220 mig your gonna get at max 1/8 penetration with a 110 you will get maybe half that but the key is to have the two pieces fused together thats what welding is all about making two or more pieces of metal one. you want that weld to be hot enough to get down to the inner most spot of that joint and melt into it to make one piece not bridge it and make two pieces welded together
I'll take the time to reply to the reasons why penetration is important when i get home in the morning or after i get up before going back into work,i am at work right now on my laptop.
__________________
Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 03-12-2011, 11:46 PM   #116
Ironworker709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfreek383 View Post
i dont know how many people on here actually weld for a living but i know because i do i have never once my time welding have been asked if i pushed or pulled the weld by an inspector. what i have been asked was was the surface pre heated what were the gas settings. have you done t breaks to test for porosity. did you use temp sticks to check interpass temps, stuff like that in the end it all comes down to dye checks x rays or ut's and none of them tell you how far "you penetrated" they check for sound welds. if you want to talk about etches their not done on the job maybe at test time to qual. so im my mind if your only welding stuff on your jeep dont worry so much about penetration your only dealing with 1/8 -1/4 max anyway your gonna get it unless you steal power from a neighboor half way around the block from an extention cord. i think some of us who do weld try to bring industry standards into the backyard and stir the pot for the average joe just trying to build a cage. just remember if your using a 110 welder plug directly to the receptacle and run continuous beads no tack tack tack you'll be fine
the thing that seems to be lacking in all this talk is fusion. yes you want some penetration into the base metal but penetration means nothing without proper fusion.let say your running a dual shield flux core wire "1/16" or even solid wire turn your wire speed way up and keep your heat where you normally would . that wire will punch into the base metal pretty far but because your voltage does not coinside with your wire speed you will get very poor fusion and the weld would fail. i would guess with even a 220 mig your gonna get at max 1/8 penetration with a 110 you will get maybe half that but the key is to have the two pieces fused together thats what welding is all about making two or more pieces of metal one. you want that weld to be hot enough to get down to the inner most spot of that joint and melt into it to make one piece not bridge it and make two pieces welded together
Since i am on lunch break at work right now and things area bit slow tonight i'll do a quick reply to my thoughts on it...

First of all an acid etch test is only used for weld testing/qualifications or to test to see how a technique and/or process will do in a certain weldment.
You'll never see anyone litteraly cut apart a peice of work to see if it penetrated,i mean if you did that it would be worthless..lol
I have personaly took a few coupon tests to be sent out for Xray AND an acid etch test to see how well i penetrated,but this was when i was hired in through a weld specialty company called W.S.I. (Welding Services Inc.) which is one of THEE heavy hitters in the world for welding services.
I seen MANY a "pretty artistict" welds FAIL in a coupon test..be it UT,Xray,cut n bend..etc,..tthey made the welds look beautiful but failed to fully penetrate or it just plain cracked under the bend.

I agree totaly..fusion is VERY important but that just goes with the territory of knowing the process you are using..wire speed,amperage/volts..size wire,rod,filler rod..clean surface,,enough inert gas...etc etc...it just means you are running a good weld with no perosity and mixing well with the base metal.

Penetration is THEE most important when it comes to the strength of a weld,the less you penetrate,the weaker the weldment...
For an easy example...
If fusion was the ONLY thing to worry about..then we would be able to weld 2 inches of steel with any little 110v welder just by using several passes to fill it..right?...wrong...
It doesnt give enough heat to penetrate INTO the base metal to get a good "bite" into the base metal.The further you penetrate into the base metal the more "add mixture" of material you're getting for a good hold...

Gotta head back to work for now....later
__________________
Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 03-13-2011, 05:48 AM   #117
dodger889
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MMM there is welding something together then there is metal gluing something together. Two different worlds between the two.
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Unread 03-13-2011, 02:46 PM   #118
jeepfreek383
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please dont get the wrong idea here, what im trying to say is that penetration is just one part . a very important part of welding but not the only thing to worry about. if you only focus on that point you can overlook another very important part of making a sound weld, proper fusion. if people are looking for good welding advise then they need to know about the other important areas besides just penetration. i think a lot of threads seem to only focus on that.

look at the piping industry you can have a pipe joint with the proper amount of penetration/reinforecment on the inside of the pipe still fail under test. because of the other factors such as undercut lack of fusion slag inclusion lots of things even though it had enough penetration it still failed so you need to stay focused on the other things as well. not just penetration. and thats what im getting at

i'll throw this out there just to show different case scenarios on some of the equipment we build we use some heavy wall stainless pipe 90 percent is open root tig argon purge but for whatever reason we are also requires to use a stainless back up mainly when we are working on in place welds before we close up the cooling units. im not a weld engineer so i dont know why there are not open root. i was told it has something to do with the fact it would take like a whole day or more to purge the entire system to get to the level of pure argon to make the welds the customer desires (#3 or better on a heat tint chart)so for the sake of production it is accceptible to use the back up rings. what im getting at is when using an 1/8 backup ring you cant burn through or blister it so you need to work at a pretty fast pace or turn your heat down to a level that works for you. before we get qualified for a particular job we are tested. on these type of joints when they are cut and examined there is very little penetration into the backup maybe a 1/16 but there is complete fusion these welds are also x rayed and bent then they are saved for examination by the customer inspector. lack of fusion in any area of this type of weld will cause a defect and show its face on xray or bend tests maybe not dpt unless its on the cap
so in this case even with very little penetration into the backup the joint is still xray quality and passes bend tests. because it had complete fusion throughout the weld.

IRONWORKER "If fusion was the ONLY thing to worry about..then we would be able to weld 2 inches of steel with any little 110v welder just by using several passes to fill it..right?...wrong..."

i never said it was the ONLY thing to worry about so im not sure why your putting words in my mouth. example this is a very poor attemp on your part to discredit me and you know thats not what im saying

im not saying you can weld very heavy stuff with a little 110 mig. its very different. heavy metal just sucks in the heat making that little welder like a hot glue gun. i'm sure most people on here know that, but for most of the stuff you weld to a jeep 110 should be fine if your plugged directly into an outlet not an extension cord and you should always bevel and run multi pass if you think your streching the limits of your machine too . if your 110 welder can penetrate 1/16 into 1/8 material pushing or pulling what does it matter that should be more than enough i think thats easy enough to understand. later
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