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Unread 11-29-2010, 09:36 AM   #46
little_Jeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMaiden View Post
A pretty good explanation of pushing vs. pulling and a hot chick (Jessi Combs) welding to boot:

Jessi Combs teaches us how to lay a bead in "Welding 102"

The tutorial is near the end but it's all good!

Jessi Combs....... Drool..... Drool..... uhhhhh, did you say something?

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Unread 02-21-2011, 12:02 PM   #47
ScottHightower
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You need to turn up the heat, pre-clean the material, and maybe slow down the wire speed a tiny bit. Be sure to tie in the 2 materials by weaving the weld in a c-shape motion without moving the puddle to far. Keep your eye on the puddle to ensure the puddle keeps up with your hand motion.

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Unread 02-26-2011, 12:42 AM   #48
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welding advise... find someone who can show you first hand
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Unread 02-26-2011, 12:49 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironworker709 View Post
Pulling in ANY wirefeed process penetrates better,i've never heard of "clearing a path" with the gas.as long as the gas is set right there is no problems with contaminations at all.

It does not penetrate better when pushing,when pushing you are riding on top of the puddle,,causing less penetration/heat INTO the base metal,pulling burns into the base metal than fills,pushing keeps the heat on the puddle further away from the base metal.
Pushing is just a better looking flatter bead,but if you know what you are doing you can get just a good looking bead pulling vs pushing AND better penetration.
FACTS..not opinions....
"clearing the path" is almost impossibe to see on anything other than aluminum . when welding aluminum mainly mig you can actually see the shielding gas clean the area slightly ahead of the puddle removing some contaminates and oxidation. if you have this halo around your puddle you know your getting correct gas coverage while carrying the correct torch angle. i personally have never seen it any other time
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Unread 02-26-2011, 08:33 AM   #50
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Shielding gas doesn't clean anything. It's inert. It's not cleaning any metal ahead of, directly under, or behind the welding arc...it's protecting it from reacting with a non-inert environment (eg. air). It will never "remove" oxidization or contaminates from your metal or your puddle.

--Wintermute
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Unread 02-26-2011, 12:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
Shielding gas doesn't clean anything. It's inert. It's not cleaning any metal ahead of, directly under, or behind the welding arc...it's protecting it from reacting with a non-inert environment (eg. air). It will never "remove" oxidization or contaminates from your metal or your puddle.

--Wintermute
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Unread 02-26-2011, 07:32 PM   #52
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How did "clean" even get into the discussion?

"Clearing the path" and "cleaning" are two completely different functions.

"Clearing the path" is a slang term that refers to the inert gas being shot ahead of the intended weld area, pushing any airborne contaminants out of the way, when a pushing motion is used.

"Cleaning" is a mechanical process.

Somehow you guys got the two words mixed up.

Rich
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Unread 02-27-2011, 02:41 AM   #53
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One fact that might be missed in all this. Is the power source for the welder itself. Just because you can power up and weld sorta with the welder. you might not have the amperage from the wall to run the machine at it's best performance. Make sure that you are using the correct power source for you welder. Most of the 110 v welder require a 20 amp circuit to run. Most home garages only have 15 amp circuits in them. This will cause the welder to run poorly. One thing just as a note if you use and extension cord use the shortest cord you need and also the heaviest wire size too.
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Unread 02-27-2011, 07:45 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger889 View Post
One fact that might be missed in all this. Is the power source for the welder itself. Just because you can power up and weld sorta with the welder. you might not have the amperage from the wall to run the machine at it's best performance. Make sure that you are using the correct power source for you welder. Most of the 110 v welder require a 20 amp circuit to run. Most home garages only have 15 amp circuits in them. This will cause the welder to run poorly. One thing just as a note if you use and extension cord use the shortest cord you need and also the heaviest wire size too.
Very good point about 110v machines that was missed !
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The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

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Unread 02-27-2011, 08:08 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixcj View Post
You're only supposed to pull, or drag, when using flux core wire.

If you're using a gas shielding, you want to push the gun. This clears a path for you ( the gas removes the comtaminating oxygen ). The bead will also penetrate better, and lay flatter than if you dragged the gun.

Rich
THIS is where the confusion started with everyone...

Clearing a path ahead of the weldment helps none whatsoever,as long as the Gas is set at the right flow IN the weldment,there is no reason for "clearing a path" ahead of the weld.

This is the reason why you can not set you're gas flow too high,instead of laying and flowing in the welded area ,it will pull contaminates INTO the welded area.You want/need the inert gas to stay IN the weld as long as possible,not ahead of it.

If this was true,i would THINK manufacturers would of designed and made a nozzle cup by now that would direct the gas flow ahead of the weld and made a killing with a patent like that..but unfortunetly..i've never seen or heard of one?

It all started when it was "said" that pushing any wirefeed process penetrates more when being pushed vs. pulling,that couldn't be further from the truth and other very knowledgable weldors and myself was just trying to clarify the actual facts so that beginners do not get the wrong info/impression.
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Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 02-27-2011, 08:15 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironworker709 View Post
THIS is where the confusion started with everyone...

Clearing a path ahead of the weldment helps none whatsoever,as long as the Gas is set at the right flow IN the weldment,there is no reason for "clearing a path" ahead of the weld.

This is the reason why you can not set you're gas flow too high,instead of laying and flowing in the welded area ,it will pull contaminates INTO the welded area.You want/need the inert gas to stay IN the weld as long as possible,not ahead of it.

If this was true,i would THINK manufacturers would of designed and made a nozzle cup by now that would direct the gas flow ahead of the weld and made a killing with a patent like that..but unfortunetly..i've never seen or heard of one?

It all started when it was "said" that pushing any wirefeed process penetrates more when being pushed vs. pulling,that couldn't be further from the truth and other very knowledgable weldors and myself was just trying to clarify the actual facts so that beginners do not get the wrong info/impression.



Ironworker, I'm glad you are in this thread... I am qualified to weld only scrap metal (grin). However, my Son-n-law is a welder by profession, so I had to purchase a MIG machine and learn to do some welding. I hear some of this discussion on these topics second hand from my Son-n-law. I am glad to see that you are trying to put the correct information out.
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Unread 02-27-2011, 09:25 AM   #57
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As IronWorker said. The inert gas shielding in MIG or TIG is there to shield from reaction with non-inert gases the area of the weld that is hot enough to react adversly. This means that shielding ahead of the weld does you no good whatsoever. Shielding the weld itself is what the gas is there for. Shielding ahead of the weld doesn't protect against adverse reaction with non-inert gases in any way. This is one of the reasons that too high of a forward or reverse angle of the torch can result in a contaminated weld, the shielding gas needs to shield the arc and therefore the active welding process occuring.

--Wintermute
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Unread 02-27-2011, 09:30 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
As IronWorker said. The inert gas shielding in MIG or TIG is there to shield from reaction with non-inert gases the area of the weld that is hot enough to react adversly. This means that shielding ahead of the weld does you no good whatsoever. Shielding the weld itself is what the gas is there for. Shielding ahead of the weld doesn't protect against adverse reaction with non-inert gases in any way. This is one of the reasons that too high of a forward or reverse angle of the torch can result in a contaminated weld, the shielding gas needs to shield the arc and therefore the active welding process occuring.

--Wintermute
THAT..is a GREAT explanation of the subject
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Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 02-27-2011, 11:13 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
Shielding gas doesn't clean anything. It's inert. It's not cleaning any metal ahead of, directly under, or behind the welding arc...it's protecting it from reacting with a non-inert environment (eg. air). It will never "remove" oxidization or contaminates from your metal or your puddle.

--Wintermute
i guess you have never seen this first hand maybe cleaning isnt the correct term . but i dont know what else you can call it the surface acually appears to change it becomes somewhat shinny. next time you weld aluminum if you do in fact weld give it a try before throwing throwing your two cents in. again this i have only seen welding Al mig, ar/he 3 to 1 mix here is a video that shows the action i am talking about you can see it coming off as he is welding forwrd you can read the article as well this is what i consider clearing a path http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...-aluminum.html
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Unread 02-27-2011, 11:25 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfreek383 View Post
i guess you have never seen this first hand maybe cleaning isnt the correct term . but i dont know what else you can call it the surface acually appears to change it becomes somewhat shinny. next time you weld aluminum if you do in fact weld give it a try before throwing throwing your two cents in. again this i have only seen welding Al mig, ar/he 3 to 1 mix
I beleive what you are seeing is the Heat Sink effect..aluminum is well known for the heat sink effect because of the way it transfers heat so fast,it will pull the heat away from the weld at a fast rate ,that is why aluminum is welded at a much higher amperage/heat so it will compensate for the heat drawing rapidly away from the weldment.

The shiny part around the weld is from the heat that was transfered in that area...if it was the inert gas causing it..than anywhere the gas flowed across the material would also be shiny..but that doesn't happen..right?

Wintermute is a good weldor and has been VERY helpfull in adice in this forum for quite a while....
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Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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