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Unread 10-06-2009, 12:41 PM   #1
oteps
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Roll cage frame tie in ???

What is better? A roll cage welded to the frame or with a bushing?
I am getting ready to build a cage for my cj5 but I am not sure which method to use to attach it to the frame. I am sure there are pros and cons to both. I have seen some with a bushing that kinda looks like a track bar bushing and some welded to the frame with a plate sandwiching the body(different sizes on the top and bottom).

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Unread 10-06-2009, 01:09 PM   #2
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I saw one where the guy cut-down a few track-bars and mounted bolted them between the frame and the body. He told me that he did it so that the body would flex properly on the factory body-mounts and that the cage would flex with it as well yet retain the strength of being tied to the frame. Also, there was little to no extra road-noise transmitted into the cabin of his Jeep.

He also said that if he ever decides to body-lift his Jeep, unbolt the tie-in's, lift the body and then make new tie-ins ..
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Unread 10-06-2009, 01:32 PM   #3
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i do have a bunch of track bars laying around.
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Unread 10-06-2009, 02:12 PM   #4
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A little more info on the jeep-- 1980 cj5 used for wheeling but still able to drive on the street, its not my DD.
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Unread 10-06-2009, 07:36 PM   #5
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Go bushings. I went direct to the frame on my last Jeep and it wreaked havoc on the body. Welded tight makes the body have to move too and puts a ton of stress on it.
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Unread 10-06-2009, 08:41 PM   #6
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why not use a body mount style? a body mount arm coming off the frame, and a big arse 1" bolt through the floor, two backing plates and a poly body mount in between
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Unread 10-09-2009, 03:58 PM   #7
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I think I am going to go with bushings. A little more time involved than just welding everything, but I think it will work better.
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Unread 10-09-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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Go to ballisticfab.com web site. They sell much bigger busing that what you guys are talking about. I would hard mount it. I went thru this same thing on my build and had the bushings and was going to notch 1 3/4 dom and weld plates to the frame then come off of the bushings so I could make a plate to the bottom of the tub and then put a plate in the top of the tub and use some big grade 8 to hold them together. But the way my cage was made thru the dash I couldn't pull that foot plate through it if I wanted to. Your stock cage is hard mounted in a since. I've seen and been in a lot of rigs that are hard mounted and I don't see why you wouldn't just go that way. If down the road you get a vibration then hack it and put a bushing but a traction bar bushing is in no way strong enough and you may as well just bolt the plate to the tub like it was stock. If you are going to put a cage in it, put it in there thinking you are going to need it. BUILD IT BEEF!!
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Unread 10-09-2009, 04:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
why not use a body mount style? a body mount arm coming off the frame, and a big arse 1" bolt through the floor, two backing plates and a poly body mount in between
PLEASE tell me this is a joke. The last thing you want is to find out if a bushing that was designed to hold up the tub of a jeep weighing in at prob 800#'s (and shared by more than just one bushing at that) is gong to be strong enough to support a roll over. This stinks of instant death!
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Unread 10-09-2009, 04:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailWorthyFab View Post
PLEASE tell me this is a joke. The last thing you want is to find out if a bushing that was designed to hold up the tub of a jeep weighing in at prob 800#'s (and shared by more than just one bushing at that) is gong to be strong enough to support a roll over. This stinks of instant death!
not joking at all...seems pretty common actually.



A Bolt In Roll Cage for Jeep Wranglers

if you do that out of 3/16" or 1/4" its stronger than the frame....in fact...on a TJ, the two B-pillars sit on body mounts. Jeep engineers seemed to think it worked, and the B-pillar isn't the weak point on TJs. So if you add more points to distribute force/load, I don't see how its going to be instant death

Single shear...yea, but when's the last time you saw a Grade 8 body mount bolt shear? It will still move with the body too...guess it depends what you plan to do with it and how many times you plan to roll it.
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Unread 10-09-2009, 04:36 PM   #11
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I see your point but the bushing on a stock B is not that of the height of what is shown. Plus. Isn't the point of frame/cage tie in to make it better than before?

Not being a prick.........Just trying to help the guy out. If there is a better way to do it than another why not take a look at it right?

That setup looks just about as good to me as the diamond plate rockers. Just messing with you!

To top it off we are talking about a CJ5. (noted in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
not joking at all...seems pretty common actually.



A Bolt In Roll Cage for Jeep Wranglers

in fact...on a TJ, the two B-pillars sit on body mounts. So if you add 2 more points to distribute force/load, I don't see how its going to be instant death

Single shear...yea, but it will still move with the body...guess it depends what you plan to do with it and how many times you plan to roll it.
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Unread 10-09-2009, 04:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailWorthyFab View Post
I see your point but the bushing on a stock B is not that of the height of what is shown. Plus. Isn't the point of frame/cage tie in to make it better than before?

Not being a prick.........Just trying to help the guy out. If there is a better way to do it than another why not take a look at it right?

That setup looks just about as good to me as the diamond plate rockers. Just messing with you!

To top it off we are talking about a CJ5 if it is the rig he has in his sig.
I see its a CJ5 I was simply using a TJ as an analogy.

Well, if you go double shear, don't follow Rockhard4x4's design. They sell a nice roll cage hinge:

http://extremegearoffroad.com/store/...ype=T&id=17699

another hinge:
http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/164...e_to_frame.jpg

better, but still a hinge:
http://www.rockfrogs.org/Pictures/EE...me_tie-in2.JPG

Put the double shear closest to the cage:


Would you agree on that?
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Unread 10-09-2009, 07:18 PM   #13
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I built my Jeep with no body mounts and rigid cage mounts. There were sandwich plates in the floor and rear fenderwell, cage welded to the upper plate and the lower plates welded to the frame. My A and B pillars tied to the frame through the rockslider outriggers and my C pillar tied with a piece of tube going from the top of the rear fenderwell to the frame.

It was extremely tight and quiet, and there was absolutely no body/frame twist whatsoever. I drove it on the street a few times and even with heim joints in my suspension (no leaf springs) there was very little noise/vibration. The only bushings or isolation in the whole vehicle were the engine and transmision mounts.
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Unread 10-09-2009, 08:05 PM   #14
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I've done hard mounts before with no problems too.

On my current CJ5, I picked up a length of 1/2" thick hard rubber from McMaster Carr. I cut it into 4"x4" pieces.. the same size as my floor plates. I just sandwiched a piece of the rubber between the floor and the "under floor plate" and then connected that plate to the frame like a normal hard mount. Each floor plate has four 7/16" Grade 8 bolts sandwiching everything together. Rides nice on the street.. no hard vibes.



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Unread 10-10-2009, 12:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BESRK View Post
I've done hard mounts before with no problems too.

On my current CJ5, I picked up a length of 1/2" thick hard rubber from McMaster Carr. I cut it into 4"x4" pieces.. the same size as my floor plates. I just sandwiched a piece of the rubber between the floor and the "under floor plate" and then connected that plate to the frame like a normal hard mount. Each floor plate has four 7/16" Grade 8 bolts sandwiching everything together. Rides nice on the street.. no hard vibes.



I sure wont trust those welds going down the road let alone a rollover. JK, good looking setup
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