*Official* Cage idea/pic/discussion thread - Page 8 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Fabrication Shop > *Official* Cage idea/pic/discussion thread

Light up the holidays with LED lights from JeepHutIntroducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineRuffstuff Axle Simple Swap Kit!

Reply
Unread 09-29-2005, 03:57 PM   #106
sentinal02
H2 Recovery Team Member
 
sentinal02's Avatar
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 6,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by tube yj
the main concern when building halo style cages is supporting the junctions of the halo and its support legs. You can see on my cage, two over sized grab handles that support the halo at the "A" pillar and two support peices where the halo attaches to the "b" pillar.
which, in effect is your triangulation, lol. the key to a simple cage design is using triangulation effectively as you have it. after all, why have all that extra bracing and the added weight when two simple 2' bends are all you need to stiffen up the critical joints. it's the same kind of concept as bridge building, etc. extra members mean extra weight and cost and thus reduce the efficiency of the bridge's design. plus, all those extra welds on the cage are introducing possible weak points to the design. doesn't matter how good of a welder you are, you're still turning a solid piece of metal into a casting with a whole bunch of other types of steel forming in the heat affected zone around the weld. there is no way short of heat treating the entire cage once it's welded to ensure that the metal around the welds is as strong as it was before adding a brace there. simplicity is definitely best in this case.

__________________
RIP: '88 YJ 2.5L Ax-5 NP231
Posi-Loked. Herculined. Optima yellow top. 1" Shackle, 2" BDS. Cragar 397's Aussie front.

92 YJ 4.0L Ax-15 231
5" springs, 1" shackle 31's or 35's depending on my mood
sentinal02 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-29-2005, 05:16 PM   #107
tube yj
Web Wheeler
 
tube yj's Avatar
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 1,957
I agree, i was responding to the hint the other poster gave that my cage did not have as much triangulation as the currie failed cage. So my point is that alot of people like to toss the term out in posts without knowing that much about cage design.
tube yj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-29-2005, 08:33 PM   #108
milfordjeeper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: here there everywhere
Posts: 86
i like mine

milfordjeeper is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-30-2005, 04:04 AM   #109
92 Green YJ
Registered User
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Spring Valley, San Diego, CA, California
Posts: 3,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by tube yj
I agree, i was responding to the hint the other poster gave that my cage did not have as much triangulation as the currie failed cage. So my point is that alot of people like to toss the term out in posts without knowing that much about cage design.
I wasn't trying to bash your cage. (is that a pun?) I was simply stating that i have seen pictures of a similar cage that failed in the past. the bottom line is that nobody can really say what kind of cage will work best for someones application. Even if we wheel the same trails, we all have different wheeling styles. However, one thing i do know is that you are more likely to roll over to either side of the vehicle, then the next most likely roll over scenerio is over backwards, like in a hill climb. the least likely, but still VERY possible roll over scenario would be an end over hood or forward roll over.

Bearing this in mind, I think thew bear minimal is to have your cage set up to easily handle a side roll over. I will be building my cage within the next month and I will be setting it up to brace against impacts and stress points that would result from a side roll over, and from a hood over *** rollover. with some attention paid to an *** over hood roll.
__________________
92 YJ. High Output 4.0L
Rubicon Express 4" Lift Kit, 2" Body Lift,15x8" AR 767s, 35x12.50 Xterrains, Home Made Snorkel, Sanden OBA, Home made rocker gaurds. 8.8 Rear with Discs, 4.10s F&R, ARB rear, Detroit EZ Locker front, WarnM8000 with Viking Synthetic Line, Beadlocks, Tons of Mods
My RigRater Score: 682RRv1.0 with a BOA of 13.47
I'm now doing custom bumpers and lift installs in So-cal
92 Green YJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-30-2005, 06:52 AM   #110
tube yj
Web Wheeler
 
tube yj's Avatar
2006 LJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 1,957
I can speak from experience that the end over end forward roll is not a fun one. The roll that tweaked my last cage beyond repair was a forward endo followed by a barrel roll as we were going down a trail. Honestly two years later I am still a little bothered by steep decents. That said, I am completely confident in my current cage to take a similar hit. My current cage was built with the end over end roll over in mind

I will post up some pics of the old cage after this weekend. I am heading out the door to wheel as we speak, so who knows i may have some new roll over pics to share on sunday evening

tube yj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 09-30-2005, 09:58 AM   #111
Mr. Notorious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 1,010
What do you guys think about using the factory part of the rear rollbar? Mines definatly a daily driver and I'm definatly not doing anything close to rolling, but I just want to know that if I do roll, I won't be trashing my windshield, hurting myself, etc. What about keeping the rear, and then running it to the windshield over to the other side, down to the dash, over the dash, and down through the floors for a frame tie-in? I want to be able to use my hard-doors, hard top, soft top, everything. I don't want to have a roll bar that gets in my way and I have to open my door to use the window crank.

Has anyone done this before? What do you guys think about it?
__________________
1992 4.0HO 5spd -- BDS 3.5" lift -- 33x11.5 M/T's -- Gibson Cat-Back -- 8.8 with 4.10's -GONE

1967 FJ, linked, 350 chevy, 35's, arbs, blah blah...
2002 TJ

"If you're not moving ahead, you're falling behind"
Mr. Notorious is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-02-2005, 07:00 PM   #112
BESRK
GROUND POUNDER
 
BESRK's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 12,279
Mine uses the factory main pillar augmented by other tubes that were welded in later.. I haven't done a hard roll yet but I did do THIS My Jeep weighs 4500lbs and the factory bar dented in but held its shape good. I'm just gonna plate over the corners with some 1/4" stuff to help prevent denting on the upper corners (where the cage is most likely to make first contact with the ground). Mine just happened to land smack on a pointed rock that dinged it...
__________________
'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..

Ground Pounder Fab


Lower 2

Guardrail

Down Schoolbus

Slickrock Tellico

Save

Crozet

More Crozet
BESRK is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-03-2005, 09:34 PM   #113
pair8hd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 338
Here's my cage...

__________________
[url="http://www.parrottheadmfg.com"][b]Parrott Head Mfg.[/b][/url]
pair8hd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-06-2005, 03:10 PM   #114
FunkSkunk
Sold my soul to JeepForum
 
FunkSkunk's Avatar
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Marble, NC
Posts: 1,814
Nice to see a different perspective, welcome to the discussion
__________________
Don't Click Me!
FunkSkunk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-06-2005, 03:44 PM   #115
FunkSkunk
Sold my soul to JeepForum
 
FunkSkunk's Avatar
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Marble, NC
Posts: 1,814
Just took some time to find some cage pages off the Net, some are fab some aftermarket bolt-in/weld. Just posting them to have more info on the thread.


short writeup on stretched CJ5 cage --> http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/projects/deep6/day23/

slightly accessable design for a YJ cage --> http://www.completeoffroad.com/wsm/i...gler_jeep.html

Small writeup on the OR Fab TJ cage ---> http://www.off-road.com/jeep/products/orfab/index2.html
and the same OR Fab cage here too (better pics)--> http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...cage/index.asp

Ten. OFF Road YJ cage ---> http://www.jeepzine.com/htdocs/reviews/cage/

write up on a M.O.R.E. YJ cage w/frame tie in kit ---> http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/newproducts/MORESportCage/

Fab'd TJ cage that bolts to the dash plate (Stu Olson/great website!)---> http://www.stu-offroad.com/guards/sportbar/roll-1.htm

JeepSpeed saftey specs webpage ----> http://www.jeepspeed.com/rules/safety_general.htm

ok thats it for now.
rollcageyjwranglerjeep49640.jpg  
__________________
Don't Click Me!
FunkSkunk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-06-2005, 08:06 PM   #116
Jeeponrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 114
And still nothing about the capsule v. solid mount to the frame debate... I guess I'll step in it.

I will be building a cage this winter for the new Jeepster/Commando project. I will be attaching all of the seats and harnesses to the cage. The cage will NOT be solidly mounted to the frame, but rather it will be poly mounted. Aside from the Noise/Vibration/Harshness aspect (which is why there are cushioned body mounts in the first place), I also WANT the frame to seperate from the passenger compartment if it is in a really serious accident. I want to dissipate energy and also have a lighter capsule during a BAD accident. A lighter capsule will stop rolling sooner than a heavy one (momentum), and won't have to support the extra weight of drivetrain if it comes to rest upside-down. Pretty much all racing cages and cars are built with the same thought process. I don't expect that I will ever roll my rig hard enough to split off the frame and drivetrain, but I never expected that I would be in the market for 38s (just picked them up yesterday).

In the event of a more "normal" ROLL, everything should stay together, and even if it did break a 1/2" or 9/16" grade 8 bolt, it would be easy enough to put back together for the ride off of the trail.

The tougher part for me is figuring out how to make the back seat accessible (I have a little boy that will ride back there on and off of the trail), as well as not make it impossible to pack for a ride. I'm not building a comp buggy, but rather a trail machine that I can (and will) drive on the street.


BTW, what is the point of bothering with the cushioned body mount if the cage is going to be solid mounted to both the frame and the body? There is no longer and isolation and it would actually be stronger to solid mount the body to the frame at that point (like a unibody).
__________________
1992 YJ SOA 8.8 Detroit D30 nv4500 but getting ready for a BIG change
www.jeepbuilders.com
Jeeponrock is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-06-2005, 08:47 PM   #117
BESRK
GROUND POUNDER
 
BESRK's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 12,279
I've tried to tie my cage hard into the frame as much as possible on my Green CJ. The Jeep has a 'glass body and a total weight of about 4500lbs when on the trail. I don't think it would take alot to separate my 'glass body from the frame in the event of a roll (or even a hard flop) so I use the cage to sandwich the body to the frame in as many places as possible. I've been working on the cage lately in the areas of triangulation, gusseting and frame tie-in. Eventually, I plan on making another frame and doing the cage work more along the lines of a buggy... build the main frame rails, weld the cage directly to the frame and then skin it with sheet metal. When I roll, I'm taking everything with me down the hill. If done right, the chassis should still be under me at the end of the ride.
__________________
'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..

Ground Pounder Fab


Lower 2

Guardrail

Down Schoolbus

Slickrock Tellico

Save

Crozet

More Crozet
BESRK is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-06-2005, 09:14 PM   #118
BART CJ5
Registered User
1979 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Alburnett, Iowa
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeponrock
And still nothing about the capsule v. solid mount to the frame debate... I guess I'll step in it.

I will be attaching all of the seats and harnesses to the cage. The cage will NOT be solidly mounted to the frame, but rather it will be poly mounted. Aside from the Noise/Vibration/Harshness aspect (which is why there are cushioned body mounts in the first place)
The tougher part for me is figuring out how to make the back seat accessible (I have a little boy that will ride back there on and off of the trail), as well as not make it impossible to pack for a ride. I'm not building a comp buggy, but rather a trail machine that I can (and will) drive on the street.


BTW, what is the point of bothering with the cushioned body mount if the cage is going to be solid mounted to both the frame and the body? There is no longer and isolation and it would actually be stronger to solid mount the body to the frame at that point (like a unibody).
I'm with you on these parts brother. I'm not to sure I want my body leaving my frame though. I see what you are attempting to do with disipation but not really feeling the SEPERATION part.

I never have understood why people get lazy and just riggid the cage through a cussioned body

This is becoming a strong family oriented sport and passenger accesability is important. I feel gussets rather than "B" pillar crosses would let you pass through, but this limits you too lap belts only.
__________________
[COLOR=Red]'79 [/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver]CJ5[/COLOR]
4" lift, 4 corner DT3000's, 33x12.5R15 TSL on black steel 15x8's (2"b.s.), full cage, [COLOR=Silver]C.C.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]4X4[/COLOR] 3/16x2x4 rear frame, [COLOR=Silver]C.C.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]4X4[/COLOR] S.R.S, stretched wheel base, [COLOR=Silver]C.C.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]4X4[/COLOR] front and rear bash bumpers, work in progress.
BART CJ5 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-07-2005, 07:31 AM   #119
quiksand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: liver of Utah
Posts: 100
I have a question. With all this talk about triangulation and hoops collapsing when unsupported, wouldn't that make the CJ and '87-'91 YJ cage superior to the later '92 and up Wranglers? I have this argument on the YJ forum all the time. But it seems to me that the early design is a lot stronger. There is really nothing keeping the '92 and up roll bars from just folding over in a rollover, it would seem to me. Any opinions?
__________________
[COLOR=DarkRed]Red '87 YJ[/COLOR], Crate Chevy 350/TH350/Dana 20, Dana 44/GM 12-Bolt, M.O.R.E shackle reversal w/buggy leaf, 4.5" Springs, +1" Daystar Body Mounts

Very soon: Painless Harness, CJ style dash w/Autometer gauges, 38.5X14.5 TSL/SXs, EZ-Locker/Spool, Waggy Springs

[COLOR=DarkRed]RJC Member #350[/COLOR]

[COLOR=DarkGreen]"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." [/COLOR]
quiksand is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 10-07-2005, 10:04 AM   #120
FunkSkunk
Sold my soul to JeepForum
 
FunkSkunk's Avatar
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Marble, NC
Posts: 1,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiksand
I have a question. With all this talk about triangulation and hoops collapsing when unsupported, wouldn't that make the CJ and '87-'91 YJ cage superior to the later '92 and up Wranglers? I have this argument on the YJ forum all the time. But it seems to me that the early design is a lot stronger. There is really nothing keeping the '92 and up roll bars from just folding over in a rollover, it would seem to me. Any opinions?
Good point! I haven't thought of that part of the cage folding before. And yeah I guess it would since there's no type of triangulation aka straight tubing in the rear of '92 and up wranglers.
Geez now i got to add that to my cage!! THANKS alot
__________________
Don't Click Me!
FunkSkunk is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.