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Unread 09-25-2010, 09:55 PM   #1
98TJKrush
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Miller 211 Wiring Help (Any Electricians)

Hi All,
I know there are other similar posts out there but I was hoping an electrician (preferably) could give me a definitive answer on the wiring for my (soon to be purchased) Millermatic 211.

Looking at a lot of different sites/posts I think I can run a 30 amp Breaker, 10/3 Gauge Wire (About 25ft to the plug), and a NEMA 6-50R Receptacle.

Can someone confirm I have things correct? It seems strange that it would be a 50 amp receptacle but that's what it said in the owners manual.

Thanks for the help!!!

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Unread 09-25-2010, 10:29 PM   #2
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Well if the specs say the Miller 211 has a maximum draw of 30 amps. The wiring I would use is 8/3 to play it safe. The 10/3 would be maxing out at 30 amps, with the 25" of cord you might pull a little more from the resistance on the cord because the voltage will drop a tad wich will increase the amps a tad. Just make sure to use the breaker that is no bigger then the maximum current the wire you get can handle and you will be fine. So if its 8 gauge then get nothing bigger then a 40 amp breaker. If you get 10 gauge get nothing bigger then a 30 amp breaker. I would get 8 gauge to have a little room for play so you can hook up other devices to if needed or make longer in the future. It will also offer less resistance so less voltage drop.

The 50 amp receptacle is normal, thats just means 50 amps is the highest its rated to handle.
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Unread 09-26-2010, 05:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord2 View Post
The 50 amp receptacle is normal, thats just means 50 amps is the highest its rated to handle.
Just clarifying a bit for the OP. That just means the plug is rated at 50 amps, not the machine or cord.

And the 50 plug is on there because it is an industry standard for just about every 220V welder out there. It makes it easier for one shop to wire in multiple 50 amp plugs but be able to swap out say plasma cutters and welders all over the shop.

Also, the 211 requires 25 amps, so a 30 amp breaker is all you will need. I do agree for a 25 foot run to go to 8 gauge wire for future use of other machines but if this is all you plan to run there then 10 gauge will do it.
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Unread 09-26-2010, 06:40 AM   #4
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I run a 90 foot 10 gauge on my Lincoln 180 with a dryer receptacle to a 30 amp breaker..works flawless and i was also worried about the recommended 50 amp breaker,but looked at the manual and it said ,if i remember correctly,the machine will pull only 25-30 amps.

My cord never even gets warm let alone hot,and the machine will burn right through 1/4" turned up to max settings
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Unread 09-26-2010, 07:18 AM   #5
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I dont even think the 180's pull that much, Im using 35' of 12 gauge and that is getting really light imo. Even with the settings at max I had someone hold a fork amp meter to test it while I ran a bead and it gets around 18 amps max. If I was to run longer wire or other devices off it I would be in trouble though. I had this wire already so I figured I would use it tell I needed more. Whats scary is the wire coming out of the welder is only 12 gauge (atleast for the 180HD's), so that could get hot if running a long distance.
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Unread 09-26-2010, 09:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98TJKrush View Post
Hi All,
I know there are other similar posts out there but I was hoping an electrician (preferably) could give me a definitive answer on the wiring for my (soon to be purchased) Millermatic 211.

Looking at a lot of different sites/posts I think I can run a 30 amp Breaker, 10/3 Gauge Wire (About 25ft to the plug), and a NEMA 6-50R Receptacle.
That's exactly what I'm running for my Miller 180 with a 30 amp breaker, you don't need a 50 amp breaker. Make up a 20-25' extension cord while you're at it, I use mine all the time when I can't position the welder close enough to the wall outlet. Which lately seems to be most of the time.
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Unread 09-26-2010, 12:32 PM   #7
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I run my 180hd on a 30amp breaker with my 30' 10 gauge s/o cord for my backup generator. I happened to have a spare L1430P - 30-Amp (4-Prong twistlock) Generator Plug so it was kind of a no brainer.
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Unread 09-26-2010, 01:16 PM   #8
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Run 8 or 6ga for future welder that may pull a little more amps.
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Unread 09-26-2010, 01:19 PM   #9
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Thanks everyone for the help. I'm feeling good about the setup and I'll be ordering my welder today!!! I'm excited to start melting some metal! If I do anything interesting I'll make some posts.

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Unread 09-26-2010, 01:27 PM   #10
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If you run 8 ga wire for future use I would stil use a 30 amp breaked to protec the welder per mfg spec.
Are you runing the line from the main panel if you are I would ron 6 ga wire with a 50 amp breaker to a sub panel with new breakers 20 amp /30 amp at your work site for extra outlets a 20 amp and the 30 amp you need for the welder
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Unread 09-28-2010, 12:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord2 View Post
Well if the specs say the Miller 211 has a maximum draw of 30 amps. The wiring I would use is 8/3 to play it safe. The 10/3 would be maxing out at 30 amps, with the 25" of cord you might pull a little more from the resistance on the cord because the voltage will drop a tad wich will increase the amps a tad. Just make sure to use the breaker that is no bigger then the maximum current the wire you get can handle and you will be fine. So if its 8 gauge then get nothing bigger then a 40 amp breaker. If you get 10 gauge get nothing bigger then a 30 amp breaker. I would get 8 gauge to have a little room for play so you can hook up other devices to if needed or make longer in the future. It will also offer less resistance so less voltage drop.

The 50 amp receptacle is normal, thats just means 50 amps is the highest its rated to handle.
Why would you use 3 wire cable? Maybe I'm picking nits but 12/3, 10/3, 8/3 etc. has in fact 4 conductors. If you go to H.D. or Lowes and ask for 3 wire what you get is 2 ungrounded (hots),1 grounding (neutral), and 1 grounded conductor(either bare or colored green)

I was just about to get into some basic A.C. theory but there was no way for me to keep it simple, brief or interesting

Me being a licensed Journeyman and Master Electrician and have worked in almost all of its disciplines for well over 20 years I consider myself an expert and I rarely give advice on the subject, a little bit of knowledge can be a very dangerous thing....

IIRC the MM211's full load rating is less then 30 amps so #10/2 copper romex with a 2 pole 30 amp breaker will suffice.

Just today I happened to scrounge about 75' of 8/2 copper (2 insulated wires, black,white and one bare ground wire) according to the Natl. Elect. Code Table 310-16 I can hook it to a 2 pole 40 amp breaker. I'm going to hook the black and the white wires to the breaker, the bare one goes to the ground bus bar.

40 amps will be plenty of power for my stick welder and I can also run my 211 with the same receptacle.
As long as I have no more than a 40 amp breaker feeding that #8 copper wire, that wire will never get hot or start a fire. The standard receptacle is rated for 50 amps, it will never see 50 amps with a 40 amp breaker. If for instance my stick welder draws 45 amps (it hasn't yet) the breaker will trip from the over current situation.

NOTICE I said COPPER wire, not aluminum. Aluminum has a lower ampacity, it oxidizes, you will hook it up wrong, you will start a fire, you will die!

This is why I rarely give advice.
There is nothing inherently wrong with aluminum conductors, I use them often but most people don't know how to. What I said is very true. Do your self a favor, spend the money get copper!

If all you can get is 3 wire (1 black,1 red, 1white, 1 bare or green) do not use the white wire. Remember always use the bare (or green) for the ground!
Now I don't want to hear any arguments about this
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Unread 09-28-2010, 01:48 AM   #12
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sorry, we dont use color codes much out in the oil fields and dont even use a neutral. For us 10/3 is 3 insulated wires. We dont buy supplies from HD or Lowes, I dont think they would have enough wire for even one project. If we asked our suppliers for 10/2 we would be given 2 wires and asked if we wanted insulated or not and what color preference, if any.
We use aluminum all the time for high voltage overhead power lines but nothing for underground, the amps needed would require it to be unbendable.
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Unread 09-28-2010, 03:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red rubi View Post
Why would you use 3 wire cable? Maybe I'm picking nits but 12/3, 10/3, 8/3 etc. has in fact 4 conductors. If you go to H.D. or Lowes and ask for 3 wire what you get is 2 ungrounded (hots),1 grounding (neutral), and 1 grounded conductor(either bare or colored green)

I was just about to get into some basic A.C. theory but there was no way for me to keep it simple, brief or interesting

Me being a licensed Journeyman and Master Electrician and have worked in almost all of its disciplines for well over 20 years I consider myself an expert and I rarely give advice on the subject, a little bit of knowledge can be a very dangerous thing....

IIRC the MM211's full load rating is less then 30 amps so #10/2 copper romex with a 2 pole 30 amp breaker will suffice.

Just today I happened to scrounge about 75' of 8/2 copper (2 insulated wires, black,white and one bare ground wire) according to the Natl. Elect. Code Table 310-16 I can hook it to a 2 pole 40 amp breaker. I'm going to hook the black and the white wires to the breaker, the bare one goes to the ground bus bar.

40 amps will be plenty of power for my stick welder and I can also run my 211 with the same receptacle.
As long as I have no more than a 40 amp breaker feeding that #8 copper wire, that wire will never get hot or start a fire. The standard receptacle is rated for 50 amps, it will never see 50 amps with a 40 amp breaker. If for instance my stick welder draws 45 amps (it hasn't yet) the breaker will trip from the over current situation.

NOTICE I said COPPER wire, not aluminum. Aluminum has a lower ampacity, it oxidizes, you will hook it up wrong, you will start a fire, you will die!

This is why I rarely give advice.
There is nothing inherently wrong with aluminum conductors, I use them often but most people don't know how to. What I said is very true. Do your self a favor, spend the money get copper!

If all you can get is 3 wire (1 black,1 red, 1white, 1 bare or green) do not use the white wire. Remember always use the bare (or green) for the ground!
Now I don't want to hear any arguments about this
Thank you
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Unread 09-28-2010, 08:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
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If all you can get is 3 wire (1 black,1 red, 1white, 1 bare or green) do not use the white wire. Remember always use the bare (or green) for the ground!
Now I don't want to hear any arguments about this
Ok, I will bite. 10/3 (3 colored wires, no bare wire) is what I was told to use by the city codes officer and city electrician to follow local codes.

Is this wrong?????
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Unread 09-28-2010, 08:53 AM   #15
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As long as one wire has green insulation.
There are a few areas that don't allow non metallic sheathed cable (aka nm or romex) as a residential wiring method I suggest you follow local codes. This is one of the reasons I don't often give advice.
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