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Unread 03-17-2008, 06:36 PM   #31
zachv
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All of the Clayton kits I have installed have had at least 2" of thread engagement in the actual threaded portion of the arm, and then the jam nut on top of that. I would not be too likely to fully trust just 1" engagement on a standard 1.25" Johnny Joint stud. It is generally accepted that you get 100% strength of the joint with 1.5X the diameter of the threaded portion, so 1.25" shanks should have 1.875" engagement.

Hope it helps.

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Unread 03-17-2008, 08:22 PM   #32
Tommy R
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Zach, is the threaded portion of a Clayon arm a nut butt welded to the end of the tubing or does it have some sort of insert that's tapped more than just a nut? From this pic it's hard to tell if a nut is just butt welded or if it's actually a threaded section of hex tubing that's inserted. I guess I'm just wondering how much thread is inside the Clayton arm.



Lance (geauxturbo) built his rig using 1" nuts butt welded to the ends of the tubing along with a jam nut. I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's worked well for him thus far. That was part of my thought process when deciding that I could thread the joints out farther.

I'm still open to thoughts and suggestions on this. I can very easily change the wheelbase when it comes time to reinstall the arms after painting. If necessary, I can always build another pair of arms to replace these, but of course I'd prefer not to......at least not yet.

Tommy
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Unread 03-17-2008, 08:42 PM   #33
zachv
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Is that an old Clayton arm? They now use the forged Johnny Joint units. I have not seen those old joints in a while.
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Unread 03-17-2008, 08:52 PM   #34
Tommy R
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Good question, Zac. I really don't know. So does Clayton use some sort of threaded insert providing >1" of thread inside their arms?

If I start second guessing myself too much, I may usee these lowers for the rear and make a pair of slightly longer arms for the front. It wouldn't be too much work, but it's the time that I'm beginning to get a bit concerned about...

Tommy
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Unread 03-17-2008, 09:16 PM   #35
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Well, crappity crap crap. I just did some measuring and I've only got 3/4" of thread engagement inside the insert (plus the one inch of the jam nut, obviously). I don't think I'm comfortable with that.

I need to measure it out, but I think the length of these arms may be a bit too long for the rear lowers. We'll see. That would suck, but oh well...

Tommy
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Unread 03-18-2008, 07:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy R View Post
Zach, is the threaded portion of a Clayon arm a nut butt welded to the end of the tubing or does it have some sort of insert that's tapped more than just a nut? From this pic it's hard to tell if a nut is just butt welded or if it's actually a threaded section of hex tubing that's inserted. I guess I'm just wondering how much thread is inside the Clayton arm.



Tommy
That picture is from my buddy Louis's build (under_psi) that I helped him on. Those are the older clayton arms. They do use an INSERT in the control arms and not a nut welded to the end. They were specially made for clayton and still are, I believe. I do not know how far the insert goes into the arm but it is an insert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy R View Post
Lance (geauxturbo) built his rig using 1" nuts butt welded to the ends of the tubing along with a jam nut. I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's worked well for him thus far. That was part of my thought process when deciding that I could thread the joints out farther.
I'm still open to thoughts and suggestions on this. I can very easily change the wheelbase when it comes time to reinstall the arms after painting. If necessary, I can always build another pair of arms to replace these, but of course I'd prefer not to......at least not yet.
Tommy
Geauxturbo also has his joints threaded in most of the way so the pivot point that is threaded is towards the middle/front of the shank instead of pivoting on the end of the shank like yours which makes it even worse.
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Unread 03-18-2008, 07:14 AM   #37
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I see what you're saying, but I think the bigger concern is overall amount of thread engagement rather than where the thread engagement is located relative to shank of the joint. Nontheless, I've already made the decision that I'm going to use these arms for the rear and make new, longer ones for the front tonight.

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Unread 03-18-2008, 07:19 AM   #38
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I see what you're saying, but I think the bigger concern is overall amount of thread engagement rather than where the thread engagement is located relative to shank of the joint. Tommy
Actually, it is both. The thread engagement had already been mentioned and then you compared your arms to geauxturbo's arms and I was just stating that that is not a good comparison because of where your 1" of thread engagement is.
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Unread 03-18-2008, 07:27 AM   #39
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We have a set of new arms in here and I just took the joints out to measure. The rear uppers with the 1" threaded shank has 1.25" internal threads, and the rear lowers with the 1.25" threaded shank has a little over 1.5" of internal threads. I would shoot for using all of the threads, if possible.

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BTW, we are having a FREE SHIPPING event on all Clayton kits over $1K this month. Click here to check it out.
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Unread 03-18-2008, 09:59 AM   #40
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1.5" of thread engagement? Thanks, Zach. That's good info. I should have much closer to that after I build the arms tonight. I'm pretty sure I can get the current arms to work in the rear. If not, I'll just cut off the bushing sleeve and get another...

I wonder how much Clayton recommends their arms be threaded out for wheelbase adjustment. I didn't see anything on their site. I do know the install pics on their site show quite a bit of exposed thread, but it's the old style and I don't know how much thread engagement they have.

Wish I could've afforded to just buy an off-the-shelf kit, but that's not the case.

Tommy
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Unread 03-18-2008, 11:40 AM   #41
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Oh, one other thing I should mention... At this point, I don't know how long my wheelbase will be. I want to make it as long as I can up front without having to re-do my steering or cut my fenders. Likewise for the rear, but swap "steering" concerns for "gas tank". So while I'd like to stretch my wheelbase about 1" or so longer up front, I don't know if that's feasible and, if not, I want to be able to bring it back closer to stock. So that's why I didn't build my arms significantly longer to begin with. It's a learning process and, fortunately, I think I can use my current arms in the rear. I think it'll work out fine.....or at least I hope so.

I appreciate everyone's comments and concerns. I don't have a chip on my shoulder and am receptive to others' input so feel free to keep it coming.

Tommy
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Unread 03-18-2008, 12:20 PM   #42
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Tommy, you are doing a great job and I am sure everything will be great when you are done the project. Every project has setbacks and concerns so it is just part of the fun.
Enjoy the process.
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Unread 03-18-2008, 12:36 PM   #43
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FYI, the threaded insert is still custom machined for Clayton. At their shop they have a pallet full of boxes that are filled with them. I got to stick my hand in a box of them and it was like..... warm apple pie
It is not just a nut.
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Unread 03-18-2008, 12:56 PM   #44
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Tommy, you are doing a great job and I am sure everything will be great when you are done the project. Every project has setbacks and concerns so it is just part of the fun.
Enjoy the process.
X2
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Unread 03-18-2008, 12:58 PM   #45
Tommy R
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Thanks, y'all. Hopefully I'll have some more pics to provide later...

Warm apple pie.... Hilarious!!

Tommy
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