Hinge failure on tire carrier - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Fabrication Shop > Hinge failure on tire carrier

FS: Jeep Fog Light LED Bulbs! Several Brightness Options! SPARTAN LOCKERS are on sale BIG TIME at ROCKRIDGE 4WD!Yukon Ultimate 35 axle kit for c/clip axles with Yukon Zip

Reply
Unread 04-06-2005, 07:59 PM   #1
Jeep Daddy
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,258
Hinge failure on tire carrier

I do some posting and reading on CJoffroad.com and recently started a thread about my new rear bumper and tire carrier. As you know my design is almost identical to Bersks. I've heard of no failures from anyone on JeepForum.com but you should read what they have to say over onCJOffroad.com - Here's a link to my thread over there:

hinge and axle failure

Let me know what you think

__________________
2004 Rubicon, 6" lift, 35s, winch, hard top, full doors, bumpers, tire carrier and rock sliders.
Jeep Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2005, 05:34 AM   #2
BESRK
GROUND POUNDER
 
BESRK's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 12,270
Hmmm.. I can understand where they're coming from with the welding and all but... the spindles are made to be welded onto a trailer axle in the first place. I do agree with the latching system needing to positively capture the end of the carrier to keep from fatiguing the spindle though. If I build anymore carriers this year, I'm gonna change the latch so that it pulls the carrier forward against a solid stop without pulling it sideways at all like it does currently. I've been daily driving this thing around for about 6-7 months with a 33" tire and steelie mounted on it. I still frequently ride on the carrier trying to break it at the spindle but haven't had any problems so far.
__________________
'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..

Ground Pounder Fab


Lower 2

Guardrail

Down Schoolbus

Slickrock Tellico

Save

Crozet

More Crozet
BESRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2005, 07:32 AM   #3
Jeep Daddy
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by BESRK
Hmmm.. I can understand where they're coming from with the welding and all but... the spindles are made to be welded onto a trailer axle in the first place. I do agree with the latching system needing to positively capture the end of the carrier to keep from fatiguing the spindle though. If I build anymore carriers this year, I'm gonna change the latch so that it pulls the carrier forward against a solid stop without pulling it sideways at all like it does currently. I've been daily driving this thing around for about 6-7 months with a 33" tire and steelie mounted on it. I still frequently ride on the carrier trying to break it at the spindle but haven't had any problems so far.
I'm glad to hear that you've not had a failure or heard of one failing. You are right, the are 'meant' to be welded to a trailer. How else would you mount one.

If you come up with a better idea on how to latch it closed, let me know. I'll just modify this one and be done with it.
__________________
2004 Rubicon, 6" lift, 35s, winch, hard top, full doors, bumpers, tire carrier and rock sliders.
Jeep Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2005, 07:51 AM   #4
390fastback
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Saskatoon, SK., Canada
Posts: 268
Mine failed on me last year. I don't use an axel as hinge though. I use a trailer bearing with the race welded into a tube which is welded to the carrier, this all pivots on a 1" bolt (grade 5) which runs up through the bumper and WAS welded to the bumper. It was only welded enough to hold it in place to keep from falling out if the nut ever came loose. Anyway the bolt fatigued at the base and I would have lost the carrier and tire at 40mph but the latch restraint is total overkill and held it on till I could pull over. I have since built a brace that holds the bolt ridgid and only allows for minimal flex. Been good so far, I just hope it satys that way!
__________________
2000 Cherokee
68 Mustang Fastback (in progress)
71 Mach 1
68 Wildcat (also in progress)
68 International 1200 4x4
78 F150 4x4 400 4spd
390fastback is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2005, 08:39 AM   #5
BESRK
GROUND POUNDER
 
BESRK's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 12,270
De Sta Co sells a latch that pulls 90 degrees instead of straight. It would pull the arm forward to latch to a stop. These are the type of clamps I'm referring to...
Clamps
__________________
'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..

Ground Pounder Fab


Lower 2

Guardrail

Down Schoolbus

Slickrock Tellico

Save

Crozet

More Crozet
BESRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2005, 12:55 PM   #6
raskal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Great white north Eh?
Posts: 125
I've no idea if you've discussed this before, but even though I've never actually built a bumper yet I think they should be built in double shear.

That does make building them with a classic spindle much harder, but that can be worked around. The breaking of the spindle at it's base should be stopped in a double shear setup though.
raskal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2005, 02:11 PM   #7
BESRK
GROUND POUNDER
 
BESRK's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 12,270
Double shear would be a good way to keep from snapping off hinge shafts...but it introduces a lot of problems of its own. You gotta build it so the double shear bracket is added after the tire carrier arm.. maybe a bolt on? Plus, you'd lose your dust shield and expose the bearings and stuff to the elements. I believe the standard 1000lb axle stub is strong enough for your typical tire carrier provided the other end of the carrier is solidly supported and does not move. That way, you're only gonna subject the spindle to flex when you unlatch the carrier to open it up. I know a trailer with welded on axle stubs is subjected to more stress/flex than my tire carrier with 33" tire on it. Imagine your typical trailer with a load of gravel on it bouncing down a gravel road or hitting a deep pothole. I'd like to examine the busted hinges first hand and see how they were setup...
__________________
'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..

Ground Pounder Fab


Lower 2

Guardrail

Down Schoolbus

Slickrock Tellico

Save

Crozet

More Crozet
BESRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2005, 11:21 AM   #8
BIGJMCCONNELL
Registered User
1977 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: S. Toms River, NJ
Posts: 445
Just thought I'd jump in on this. I used the trailer spindle for my swing out (from rockstomper) and welded it all the way around where it meets the bumper it has approx 1 inch welds along the remaining portion of the shaft. Been on there for over a year with a 33" and steel rim and hi-lift mounted on there. My latch does not allow flex unless the swing-out is open.

If I had to guess what is making these things snap, its fatigue. I Similar to what BESRK said.

A much smaller force is needed to fracture an item in cyclic loading than in a continuous load configuration.
__________________
1977 CJ-7 with Ford 302 engine
2.5 inch springs Matkins Frame with 1.5 inch body lift and all Fiberglass body D30/M20 w/3.54 gears, Moser 1-piece and Rear Aussie Locker, Jeep T-18w/Dana 20 and 35" tires Dual Flowmaster Exhaust, 6 point roll cage, OBA and a bunch of other stuff.
MY RIG
BIGJMCCONNELL is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2005, 01:52 PM   #9
gabemerrill
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 166
I had a different failure. The weld that connects the bottom of the bumper to the frame attachment point (3/8" angle iron) cracked and caused the rear crossmember to also crack just inside the body mount. What a mess. Luckily I noticed it and took the spare off. Still trying to decide where to go from here, this bumper was on the jeep when I bought it a year ago and was purchaced commercially.

Heres a picture from last fall...


Gabe
__________________
'99 TJ - True 44s w/4.56 Detroits & USA Alloy up front, 4.5/3.5 RE SF, AtlasII 4.3, Hydro assist High steer, Armor Cage n' Stuff
gabemerrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2005, 08:23 PM   #10
Jeep Daddy
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by BESRK
De Sta Co sells a latch that pulls 90 degrees instead of straight. It would pull the arm forward to latch to a stop. These are the type of clamps I'm referring to...
Clamps
You would need a lot of room on the back side of the carrier frame to make this work. I can't see how I'd make this work.

I did space my frame up the same way you (Besrk) did by putting my angle iron in place and then putting another spacer on top of that so the frame would not drag when closeing. I'm going to weld a spacer on top of the angle iron stop so that the latched end of the frame is supported. I'm also going to use a pin with a locking ball to help secure the frame. I'll go out and take a pic and post my idea next.

Okay, here's the locking pin idea.



Here's my finished bumper and tire carrier.


__________________
2004 Rubicon, 6" lift, 35s, winch, hard top, full doors, bumpers, tire carrier and rock sliders.

Last edited by Jeep Daddy; 04-08-2005 at 08:49 PM..
Jeep Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2005, 09:27 PM   #11
Scafone
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Michigan's U.P.
Posts: 839
While I haven't had my new setup very long, I feel very good about it. I couldn't figure an upper-right hinge to go with the lower hinge, so a upper left clamp was my solution. With that, and the rubber bump stop in the middle, it can't wiggle front to back when locked in place.

I don't know if you guys have any forward/backward movement when locked in place, but I did. The hinge and lower left mount was not moving, but the whole carrier was, so I put a clamp up top, and absolutely NO more wiggle. I have a basket-type rack to go above the carrier for more storage, so I had to resolve the leverage issue.






__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson
Scafone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2005, 10:54 PM   #12
igofshn
Locked @ both ends
 
igofshn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lemoore, CA
Posts: 7,775
I had a failure of a 1" trailer spindle. The spindle sheared completely off. It wasn't a failure do to any welding, I was completely surprised because there wasn't much weight on it at the time. There wasn't a spare on it. Just a rack and some gas cans. The latch and mount had no movement at all. Driving down the road I noticed it moving and got out to look. Undid the latch and it came falling down. Lucky it didn't fall off on the road while I was moving.
__________________
2007, 4 door, powered by a minivan engine, locked and riding on 35's.


[Jeep Pics
igofshn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-11-2005, 08:58 PM   #13
Jeeponrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 114
I had parts machined to use the beefier 1750# trailer axle and bearings. Also, on the bumpers that I have been building, I capture the swing-arm on three sides and then clamp it into the box I made. You may be able to get a better idea from my site.

www.jeepbuilders.com

I recognize that there is a serious torque load as well as vibrational stress on the hinge. Therefore, I went for overkill. As it sits, it is strong enough to transfer the load to the bumper. I have already beefed up the ears on the rear frame crossmember, and now I'm thinking about adding a second latch higher up to stop the fore/aft movement when running heavier tires.
__________________
1992 YJ SOA 8.8 Detroit D30 nv4500 but getting ready for a BIG change
www.jeepbuilders.com
Jeeponrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-18-2013, 11:16 PM   #14
brokenujoint
Registered User
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 738
I didnt read through all the posts but can post up why one of my spindle hinges failed and why the replacement did not and is now 10 yrs old and going strong.
1st time I did it was the same as the 2nd except for one important difference. The difference was keeping the spindle as cool as possible while you weld the base of it to the bumper. Weld in sections and allow to cool in between. Dont just go gung ho and weld the whole thing in a hurry. Once the section of weld is applied ( I laid a one inch bead at a time), wait several seconds then put a wet t shirt on the spindle to keep it from getting to hot so it doesnt get brittle. Wait about 5 minutes then throw on another bead. Almost all spindles snap at the base right where the bumper and the spindle meet. This is where you've welded and because of the heat techniques(or lack of) its why it fails.
0303090657.jpg   0409000828-2-.jpg  
__________________
If @ 1st you don't succeed, grind it, hammer it, weld it, drink a beer and try again.
brokenujoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.