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Unread 12-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #1
jaspepp
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High freq tig start on jeep

I was getting ready to build some aluminum tube fenders to cut a little weight and was wondering if it would be ok to tack the aluminum together on the jeep like I did with the steel ones. Just don't know what the high freq start and the ac welding would do to the computer

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Unread 12-05-2012, 03:13 PM   #2
el_magico
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The older transformer type TIG machines would cause much more interference than the newer inverter style machines, and the older ones, in my experience didn't really cause interference. Even though it is not very likely that you would encounter a problem, its not worth the trouble of risking it, if you can.
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Unread 12-05-2012, 05:42 PM   #3
jaspepp
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I'm not really worried about interference, like the radio goin fuzzy when you light up. I'm more worried about frying the computer. When I did the steel ones I just ran lift arc, so I never really had to worry about it. Anyone ever ran dcep on aluminum??? I know it works, but would it work well enough on lift arc to tac it up???
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Unread 12-05-2012, 07:15 PM   #4
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Unhook your battery..and unhook the Computer and take it out just to be safe..then no worries..that way you'll be 100% sure your not going to run a current through them or the high frequency messing with computer software.........hook them back up when done
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Unread 12-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #5
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Ran into a friend that runs a hot rod shop today, he said they tig aluminum on the vehicles all the time and just disconnect the battery for good measure. Figured I would say something incase anyone else ran into the same question
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Unread 12-06-2012, 02:57 PM   #6
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Good advice...

The reason i said to maybe unhook the computer and move it...is because a few years back a local nuclear power plant I work alot bought a boatload of brand new Lincoln Invertek V350 Pro's...they became the warehouse dust collectors after using them a few times around the eletronics and sensors near the reactor building and setting off sensors and messing up software when welding with high frequency TIG..one time shuttin the unit down automaticly for 2 days untill they figured out what was going on..lol..they wasn't happy..because each unit makes $1.3 million a day ...lol
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:36 PM   #7
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Wow, pretty sure almost every post from you (ironworker) that I've read has taught me something or made me realize something. I spent last year doing abunch of stainless work and installs at food plants and couldn't figure out why we ran 100% lift arc. After reading you last post above it just clicked. You're a wealth of knowledge.
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Unread 12-16-2012, 09:18 AM   #8
RenoF250
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High frequency start puts of a ton of noise but vehicle computers are about the most rugged electronics made. I would be very surprised if you could damage it without trying.
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Unread 12-16-2012, 10:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RenoF250 View Post
High frequency start puts of a ton of noise but vehicle computers are about the most rugged electronics made. I would be very surprised if you could damage it without trying.
High Frequency is about the same frequency as a Radio frequency,but much stronger...

Ever hear of people with high linear boost CB radios in there house get federal fines?..

It's because it can and will mess with people's electronics such as TV's and computers,sterio's...etc..

My Uncle in Pa has always been a CB and Ham radio nut,,the feds came and took every peice of his equipment years ago because he was using an illegal high output linear,and most of his neighbors TV's were ruined,not just messed up while he keyed the Mic..but eventualy RUINED...

High frequency CAN do some pretty bad things to electronics and programs,its been provin,thats why anytime we are around electronic sensors and equipment in any plants that use them,we are not allowed to use any HF machines,even if the sensors and equipment are shutdown,it messes with not only the hardware,but the softare programs too...

Bottom line for "me"?....i don't care what anyone "beleives"..if i am using a HF start around any of vehicles,it only takes about a whopping 10-15 minutes to locate and remove the computer for a preventive caution...

I'd rather waste that little time,than find out later i happened to be "that one" that it DID damage the computer and cost me an arm and a leg to replace it...

As far just DC non HF..i'll just unhook the battery as a precaution and MAKE SURE i have a really good ground close to my work...
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Unread 12-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #10
jeeprg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaspepp
I'm not really worried about interference, like the radio goin fuzzy when you light up. I'm more worried about frying the computer. When I did the steel ones I just ran lift arc, so I never really had to worry about it. Anyone ever ran dcep on aluminum??? I know it works, but would it work well enough on lift arc to tac it up???
What kind of machine are you using? If it has a square wave output you should be able to lift start on AC. That should work just fine for making the tacks. Not ideal, but way better than dcep.
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Unread 12-16-2012, 08:48 PM   #11
RenoF250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironworker709 View Post
High Frequency is about the same frequency as a Radio frequency,but much stronger...

Ever hear of people with high linear boost CB radios in there house get federal fines?..

It's because it can and will mess with people's electronics such as TV's and computers,sterio's...etc..

My Uncle in Pa has always been a CB and Ham radio nut,,the feds came and took every peice of his equipment years ago because he was using an illegal high output linear,and most of his neighbors TV's were ruined,not just messed up while he keyed the Mic..but eventualy RUINED...

High frequency CAN do some pretty bad things to electronics and programs,its been provin,thats why anytime we are around electronic sensors and equipment in any plants that use them,we are not allowed to use any HF machines,even if the sensors and equipment are shutdown,it messes with not only the hardware,but the softare programs too...

Bottom line for "me"?....i don't care what anyone "beleives"..if i am using a HF start around any of vehicles,it only takes about a whopping 10-15 minutes to locate and remove the computer for a preventive caution...

I'd rather waste that little time,than find out later i happened to be "that one" that it DID damage the computer and cost me an arm and a leg to replace it...

As far just DC non HF..i'll just unhook the battery as a precaution and MAKE SURE i have a really good ground close to my work...
I am an electrical engineer, I am familiar with what is in HF. It is very wideband and nasty but it is one thing to disturb a signal and another to destroy the electronics. Vehicle computers are very robust made on heavier processes with added protection.

Still, I agree it does not hurt to disconnect the battery. Disconnecting the ECM is not likely necessary but I suppose better safe than sorry.
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Unread 12-16-2012, 09:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RenoF250 View Post
I am an electrical engineer, I am familiar with what is in HF. It is very wideband and nasty but it is one thing to disturb a signal and another to destroy the electronics. Vehicle computers are very robust made on heavier processes with added protection.

Still, I agree it does not hurt to disconnect the battery. Disconnecting the ECM is not likely necessary but I suppose better safe than sorry.
Thats just the way i have always been,safe than sorry.....

We used to have an 86 GT ragtop fox body,i had to swap the rear out when we got it because it was making some serious noise,was cheaper to put a 9" in it i had laying around...so i did a bunch of tacking and welding on the rear with my old Miller Maxstar 200DX while it was under the car and bolted up to make sure everything would stay in place after welded....

Right after we did that switch,the car would never run right..later i replaced the computer with a 93 5.0 5 speed computer(they are better and more responsive) and never had any more problems....but funny thing is,i suspect something happened to the computer while welding because i didn't unhook the computer..just the battery cables,because before that it didn't have the running problems.it seemed to fluxuate through RPM's....did the welding cause it?..can't be 100% sure..but it sure does fit together like a puzzle...

My brother is also an electrical engineer,4 years of college...worked at the Sparrow's Point Steel Mill in Baltimore for about 15 years..and left when RG Steel shut it down and now he works for DuPont in Delaware as an Electrical Engineer...and he was always the first one to never let me near any of his vehicles and unhook any of the computers in his vehicles when i was welding on them...
So i geuss everyone has their theories and opinions..but me?..(again)..i'll play it safe,especialy when it only takes a whopping 10-15 minutes to locate,unplug and pull the computer completely out of the vehicle...

If i had no bad luck,i wouldn't have any at all,,so i tend to play things safe...lol
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Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
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Unread 01-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #13
jaspepp
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Figured I would give an up date after I ran a couple hundred miles on it. I ended up just simply pulling the battery and calling it good. Tacked everything up on the jeep, welded it off the jeep. When I finished I just put the battery back in and it fired right up. Drove it for a week or so, wheeled it pretty hard on this weekend, and everything works like it should. Fenders turned out pretty well too
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