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Unread 05-22-2009, 01:06 PM   #1
moprr71
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Co2 Tank for OBA

Can I use an aluminum Co2 tank for OBA like a power tank? These are used for kegs and paintball filling. There are some on ebay and i wanted to know if it would work

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Unread 05-22-2009, 01:37 PM   #2
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The aluminum tank should be fine so long as its rated for the pressure you are wanting to charge it up to...
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Unread 05-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #3
moprr71
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what psi does the power tank hold?
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Unread 05-22-2009, 03:24 PM   #4
jgorm
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I figure that co2 can range up to about 1000psi depending on the temp. If the tank is rated for liquid co2 it will be fine.
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Unread 05-23-2009, 11:44 AM   #5
my-jeep-earl
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IMHO I would recommend using Nitrogen over CO2, it's dryer, larger molecules, and won't change pressure when hot. The cylinders hold 2100 PSI VS. 1000 or so with CO2, thus more tire fills.

Most all auto racing sanctions are using it now also, as well as the military for high flying aircraft (it won't freeze). I've been using it in all my vehicles for 2 years now, no problems!

If you do choose CO2, I wouldn't use a liquid tank (syphon, dip tube) as you'll be dumping the CO2 into the tire in liquid form and have it return to a gas form 'in the tire', probably not too good for the tire. Just a thought!
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Unread 05-24-2009, 01:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by my-jeep-earl View Post
IMHO I would recommend using Nitrogen over CO2, it's dryer, larger molecules, and won't change pressure when hot. The cylinders hold 2100 PSI VS. 1000 or so with CO2, thus more tire fills.

Most all auto racing sanctions are using it now also, as well as the military for high flying aircraft (it won't freeze). I've been using it in all my vehicles for 2 years now, no problems!

If you do choose CO2, I wouldn't use a liquid tank (syphon, dip tube) as you'll be dumping the CO2 into the tire in liquid form and have it return to a gas form 'in the tire', probably not too good for the tire. Just a thought!
CO2 tanks probably hold 15x (I think liquid to gas phase transitions expand around 14.x times) the volume of a N2 tank because the co2 is liquid. It wont spray out co2 if you use a standard tank. Most co2 regulators prevent liquid from coming out. You can get liquid N2 too, but the tanks and juice will cost WAY more.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 05:25 PM   #7
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before you kill yourself, read here:

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Q: “Why can’t I just make my own Power Tank TMCO2 system? What’s the difference?”
A: Although you can find CO2 tanks around you will be hard pressed to find or make a CO2 regulator that does what our SuperFlow regulators do. This is because common gas regulators that you would find at a welding or restaurant supply store are not designed to provide a high-pressure output AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, A HIGH FLOW RATE. They are designed for low pressures and low flow rates. At the most they are used to operate pneumatic switches and valves – higher pressure but again low flow rate requirements. The high flow rate is the key to our SuperFlow HPXTM regulators. Our regulators use a proprietary design to provide a very high constant flow rate which is what enables it to run large air tools and inflate multiple tires at a high rate of speed. Normal regulators will quickly “freeze clog” and often destroy internal parts even at moderate flow rates due to CO2's freezing temperatures. Our SuperFlow regulators are compact, well built, and guaranteed to perform to our claims. We back every SuperFlow regulator with a limited lifetime warranty. This is unheard of in the regulator industry. Finally, we protect the regulator assembly against damage with our stout powdercoated aluminum Power Grip™ guard/handle.
from:
http://www.powertank.com/faqs#question8
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Unread 05-24-2009, 10:22 PM   #8
moprr71
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so I can buy the regulator and find a Co2 bottle and have a reasonable OBA system. The power tank bottle is $200 and i found some on craigslist for $20.
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Unread 05-24-2009, 11:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
before you kill yourself, read here:
from:
http://www.powertank.com/faqs#question8
Thats just marketing BS. Maybe it will ice up if you are running a sand blaster, or an impact wrench on a tire change contest. Even if you get a lot of frost, there is nothing that is going to "explode". Maybe i'll test it out tomorrow with the impact gun on a regular regulator.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 07:32 AM   #10
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Liquid CO2 tanks work fine for tires and air tools. Just make sure you get a high volume regulator. Wear gloves when using because the fittings can get quite cold.
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Unread 05-25-2009, 11:44 AM   #11
my-jeep-earl
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Why would you want to dump an "ice cold" gas into a hot or even warm tire and have to do it with gloves on?

Nitrogen is at ambient temp. The regulators will cost the same price or close to it and mine fills the tire as fast or faster than a gas station pump.

Liquid Nitrogen would be impractical for this use as the container it's in is a glorified THERMOS bottle called a Dewar and not a high pressure cylinder.

A 20 lb CO2 will cost about the same as a 60 CF Nitrogen refill, just a thought!
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Unread 05-27-2009, 08:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my-jeep-earl View Post
Why would you want to dump an "ice cold" gas into a hot or even warm tire and have to do it with gloves on?

Nitrogen is at ambient temp. The regulators will cost the same price or close to it and mine fills the tire as fast or faster than a gas station pump.

Liquid Nitrogen would be impractical for this use as the container it's in is a glorified THERMOS bottle called a Dewar and not a high pressure cylinder.

A 20 lb CO2 will cost about the same as a 60 CF Nitrogen refill, just a thought!
my-jeep-earl, 20 lbs of CO2 is approx. 160 cubic feet... using the information YOU provided with your argument; why in the world would you pay the same price for 100 fewer cubic feet just to use nitrogen? Seems pretty silly.
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Unread 05-27-2009, 09:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my-jeep-earl View Post
IMHO I would recommend using Nitrogen over CO2, it's dryer, larger molecules, and won't change pressure when hot. The cylinders hold 2100 PSI VS. 1000 or so with CO2, thus more tire fills.

Most all auto racing sanctions are using it now also, as well as the military for high flying aircraft (it won't freeze). I've been using it in all my vehicles for 2 years now, no problems!

If you do choose CO2, I wouldn't use a liquid tank (syphon, dip tube) as you'll be dumping the CO2 into the tire in liquid form and have it return to a gas form 'in the tire', probably not too good for the tire. Just a thought!
I think you should do some more background on the physical properties of gasses and chemicals. How is CO2 "wet?" (it's not!)


Larger molecules? No! N2 molecular weight = 28.014
CO2 molecular weight = 44.009... I will agree that this is not the important part, but the size of the molecule is. Still, N2 is actually smaller than CO2.

Both molecules are linear, so the length is not as important as the diameter of the largest atom.

Atomic radius of N = 65 pm
Atomic radius of O = 60 pm
Atomic radius of C = 70 pm (pm = picometers)

Major radius of N-N (N2) = 65 pm!
Major radius of O=C=O (CO2) = 70 pm!


It will not change pressure when hot? This is very incorrect, gaseous N2 will behave just like every other gas, there is nothing magical about it. You take N2, the purest and driest N2 your can get your hands on, put it in a fixed volume container (how about a tire?) and heat it up, the pressure will increase… guaranteed.
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Unread 05-27-2009, 09:44 AM   #14
NOVA87Wrangler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTimZJ View Post
I think you should do some more background on the physical properties of gasses and chemicals. How is CO2 "wet?" (it's not!)


Larger molecules? No! N2 molecular weight = 28.014
CO2 molecular weight = 44.009... I will agree that this is not the important part, but the size of the molecule is. Still, N2 is actually smaller than CO2.

Both molecules are linear, so the length is not as important as the diameter of the largest atom.

Atomic radius of N = 65 pm
Atomic radius of O = 60 pm
Atomic radius of C = 70 pm (pm = picometers)

Major radius of N-N (N2) = 65 pm!
Major radius of O=C=O (CO2) = 70 pm!


It will not change pressure when hot? This is very incorrect, gaseous N2 will behave just like every other gas, there is nothing magical about it. You take N2, the purest and driest N2 your can get your hands on, put it in a fixed volume container (how about a tire?) and heat it up, the pressure will increase… guaranteed.
Tim is wise is the ways of Boyle's Law. PV=nRT FTW

Just use CO2 - it's more common and you can hook it back up to your kegorator when you get back from wheeling.
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Unread 05-27-2009, 09:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVA87Wrangler View Post
PV=nRT
Yup, you cant argue with the natural gas law!

But on the subject of N2 in tires... It does hold pressure longer, but its not because of the molecule size, its due to the lack of charge that makes it harder to get thru the rubber. I called BS when i first heard about this stuff, but then i did more research on it. Using pure N2 is a total waste of money considering you can get 78% nitrogen for free.
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