Arc Welding - thinner rod or stitch welding attachment? - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Fabrication Shop > Arc Welding - thinner rod or stitch welding attachment?

ROCKRIDGE4WD Introduces a NEW Jeep Wrangler JK *led* tail Introducing MONSTALINERô UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineEngo winches available at www.rockridge4wd.com! Free shipp

Reply
Unread 11-01-2010, 08:08 PM   #1
rugsucka
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sumware Inn, Ontario
Posts: 2,452
Arc Welding - thinner rod or stitch welding attachment?

I have and old 295 amp a/c arc welder and have been slowly working on my beads while welding 3/16 and 1/4" plate with a 1/8" 7018 rod.

This took some time to understand and become competent with. I have figured out the relationship between arc strength and metal thickness and speed with relation to bead vs burn thru with amp strength as well.

I would like to try and stitch some welds on some 1/8" to 1/8" and would like some advice about rod type thickness and and the idea of a stitch weld attachment

I have 1/8" 6011 rods, 3/32 6011 and the fresh 7018 (or oven baked) 1/8" rods.

Could I hope to get a decent bead with the 3/32 rods or 1/8 rods with dropping the amps? or

Is this stitch welding attachment I've seen on Ebay a worthwhile consideration?

I understand a mig welder will be better for thinner metal, but the welder I have was free, and I already am willing to accept ok welds with an angle grinder to touch them up.

Any advice on rod type of thickness with suggested settings on my buzz box?

I do have a friend that could mig weld them for me, but I'm stubborn and willing to try

__________________
'00 XJ - Somewhat modified
'01 Venture - high mileage, paid for, shut it
rugsucka is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-01-2010, 08:53 PM   #2
Krochus
Registered User
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alma, Arkansas
Posts: 1,844
If you haven't used them yet you owe it to yourself to give 3/32" 7018ac rods a shot.

On a reccomendation I bought some to use to put my .090" wall tube roll cage together. Even on a AC only machine I was most impressed with these rods in all positions and their reluctance to burn through yet make a nice flat weld with good penetration.
__________________
Think Green recycle your YJ's sway and trac bars today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buickgnx88 View Post
"Jeep Wave threads, it's a newb thing, you wouldn't understand!"
Krochus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-02-2010, 09:20 AM   #3
ciggjohnson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: bradford ontario, ontario
Posts: 7
listing a few rods below more designed for thinner metals. I have not personally tried with an AC welder or smaller AC welder, I do have access to one next door usally based on time and oppurinity. I have an old dc welder and run alot of 3/32 7018 and 6011 3/32 I have used the ac 3/32 1/8 7018 and does put down some nice welds in all positions.


Fill Freeze, High Speed, Mild Steel Stick Electrodes
Fleetweld 7 E6012 AC, DC- Got a variety of jobs that a single all-position electrode has to handle? Choose Lincoln Electricís Fleetweld 7. This versatile, high-speed electrode is a real workhorse on sheet metal lap and fillet welds. Itís also a great choice for welding poor fit-up welding jobs.

Fleetweld 37 E6013 AC, DC+, DC- Hereís a terrific all-position electrode for low amp welding on sheet metal -- especially in applications where appearance is important. Weíve designed Fleetweld 37 for excellent performance with smaller AC welders with low open-circuit voltages. Itís an excellent choice for jobs involving irregular or short welds that require a change in position.

Fleetweld 47 E7014 AC, DC+, DC- Fleetweld 47 features high deposition rates for fast performance. Operators love this easy-to-use, all-position electrode! Choose Fleetweld 47 for sheet metal lap joints and fillet welds, general purpose plate welding and maintenance jobs.
ciggjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2010, 07:04 AM   #4
Bigbob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 3,578
On 1/8" to 1/8" metal the 7018 in a 3/32 works very well. I use 7018 3/32" for most every thing I do. Make sure you get the AC stuff. On DC welding the 3/32" is good down to 16 ga metal.
__________________
2006 Solar Yellow Rubicon Unlimited
Jeep Club Member #1340
6 Speed, Hardtop
Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
Bigbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2010, 10:26 AM   #5
rugsucka
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sumware Inn, Ontario
Posts: 2,452
what do you set your amps at for the 3/32 7018 - I was given a range of 70-100 depending on the thickness and bought a box to try out given a few recommendations

I have also determined that 10 year old 6011 rods are temperamental - or it that just the 6011 rod itself?

I have welded about 48" now and have determined that 7018 rods are pretty easy to use and my beads are starting to look like beads and not blob, space, blob, snakebite, blob, space, gap, blob, stuck rod, swear words x 100
__________________
'00 XJ - Somewhat modified
'01 Venture - high mileage, paid for, shut it
rugsucka is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2010, 11:22 AM   #6
Krochus
Registered User
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alma, Arkansas
Posts: 1,844
Quote:
what do you set your amps at for the 3/32 7018 - I was given a range of 70-100 depending on the thickness and bought a box to try out given a few recommendations
We can't tell ya as every machine and welder is diffrent.

One thing I note is you said your rods are OLD, if you're not using either fresh rods or rods stored in a stabilizing oven you're pissin in the wind.

I'm not sure about 6011's but a 7018 or 8018 rod has a usable exposed to ambient atmosphere use window that's less than a work shift that afterwards they're trash.
__________________
Think Green recycle your YJ's sway and trac bars today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buickgnx88 View Post
"Jeep Wave threads, it's a newb thing, you wouldn't understand!"
Krochus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2010, 06:12 PM   #7
rugsucka
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sumware Inn, Ontario
Posts: 2,452
I'm quite convinced that the 6011's which are old are also garbage.

I'm keeping the new rods inside and with silica gel packs and on top of the furnace. I hope that will suffice.

I am having serious sticking issues with the 3/32 7018 rods - I guess I'll slowly creep up the amps until they start behaving - I'm having no issue at all with the 1/8" 7018's running the amps around 160 and getting good penetration vs 140 amps , perhaps 110ish is too low for the 3/32 rods and I need to bump it up a bit more.

Does the amps delivered vary as a machine runs? ie Under load does the power tail off or is it generally full arc until the duty cycle kicks in? I'm not running hot or quick enough to have to give the machine a break - it's also duty rated at 100% until 150 amps so I don`t think I`m giving it a serious work out.
__________________
'00 XJ - Somewhat modified
'01 Venture - high mileage, paid for, shut it
rugsucka is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2010, 10:40 PM   #8
Bigbob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 3,578
Every machine is different so you will need to experiment. 7018 tends to stick a lot. Higher amps helps, but sometimes you can go too high. Welding DC on 3/32" 7018 I use about 80-85 amps with great results, but if not careful it'll stick like crazy. I'd try about 110-130 range for AC. As to the rod getting moisture in it, many feel if you open the pack of new rod it is shot unless it is stored in an oven. Perhaps this could be true if you live in a very humid or wet place. I buy the small 5 lb boxes and they last me a long time. I only remove from the box (Hobart Rod/Plastic box) what I feel I will need for the job. I regularly put it in the kitchen oven at 400 degrees or so for a while to extract any possibly moisture. If it does actually get wet or absorb a lot of moisture from the air there is no way to dry it. You may remove the moisture from it, but the damage was done and it just won't work right. Rod stored in a good dry manner will last a long time. Many welding stores have rod for years before it is sold. It is welding rod, not cheese! The 6011 can stand a lot of moisture in it, but moisture and time will make it fall apart. I have used very wet 6011 in the rain with very good/same results. The best 6011 I have used is the Lincoln Fleetweld 180. Very ugly high penetration welds that need to be cleaned up a lot. BTW, welding in the rain can be interesting, I don't suggest it, but if it's got to be repaired in the rain just be safe.
__________________
2006 Solar Yellow Rubicon Unlimited
Jeep Club Member #1340
6 Speed, Hardtop
Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
Bigbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-03-2010, 11:51 PM   #9
Krochus
Registered User
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alma, Arkansas
Posts: 1,844
Quote:
many feel if you open the pack of new rod it is shot unless it is stored in an oven. Perhaps this could be true if you live in a very humid or wet place.
When you weld for a living on state transportation projects as per the AASHTO AWS bridge welding code book D1.5 it's pretty much the law of the land. A 7018 rod is trash if left exposed to the ambient atmosphere for more than 4 hours

As to welding rods in a store

They are kept in a controlled atmosphere, IE the packaging. Once the seal is broken on a "tin" of rods the 4hr exposure timer is ticking. Unless you live in a ZERO humidity environment the flux on your exposed rods will constantly be gathering moisture from the air unless stored properly.
__________________
Think Green recycle your YJ's sway and trac bars today!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buickgnx88 View Post
"Jeep Wave threads, it's a newb thing, you wouldn't understand!"
Krochus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-04-2010, 06:34 AM   #10
Bigbob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 3,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krochus View Post
When you weld for a living on state transportation projects as per the AASHTO AWS bridge welding code book D1.5 it's pretty much the law of the land. A 7018 rod is trash if left exposed to the ambient atmosphere for more than 4 hours

As to welding rods in a store

They are kept in a controlled atmosphere, IE the packaging. Once the seal is broken on a "tin" of rods the 4hr exposure timer is ticking. Unless you live in a ZERO humidity environment the flux on your exposed rods will constantly be gathering moisture from the air unless stored properly.
Very true. I don't weld on many state transportation projects. I weld on BBQ grills and such in the garage.
__________________
2006 Solar Yellow Rubicon Unlimited
Jeep Club Member #1340
6 Speed, Hardtop
Mods done: Hurst tee handle, cheap hand throttle, Rokmen Merc front bumper, Warn 9.5 TI winch with 3/8" X 100 worth of Viking yellow rope, DPG OME Ultimate with JKS ACOS up front, Kilby Gas Tank Skid, Kilby Steering Box Skid, Jeep Medic Belly Up, Skidrow Engine Skid, Rockcrusher Diff Skid in the rear, Warn Diff cover in front, , AR Outlaw II's and MTR 12:50/15's, Homemade rear Bumper, Cheap Cobra CB, Puma OBA, Sirius Radio, Locker Defeat, Rockhard cage, Rockmen short corners, homemade tire swing/tailgate hinge affair, Airlift air bags on the rear- - - - - - and more to come!
Bigbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-12-2012, 05:22 AM   #11
1DrWillis1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: wilmington, NC
Posts: 2
I use an old refrigerator for storing my welding rods.It is not plugged in, I just use the airtight sealing feature.
I drilled a hole and inserted a bushing thru the side to allow access with my wiring.
I have now placed 2ea. 25watt/,115 volt HEATRON strip heater elements in the bottom,below the racks, on top of a fire brick.The elements are glued to a piece of 1/8 thick aluminum plate using RED SILICONE adhesive.
This spreads the heat and prevents a hot spot on the bottom of the fridge.
This plate is resting on the fire brick.
They provide enough heat to keep the inside air over 110 degrees.
I also mounted a thermostat thru the wall to monitor temperature.
Occasionally, I will open the freezer door for a very short period,a minute or so, till I feel hot air coming up from the bottom, then I close it. This is to allow any moisture to escape that might have entered when I was accessing the rods during a job.Moist air is lighter than dry air and will rise to the top.


Hope this helps someone.
1DrWillis1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-12-2012, 03:35 PM   #12
Ironworker709
Moderator
 
Ironworker709's Avatar
1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Millen Area,Georgia
Posts: 3,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1DrWillis1 View Post
I use an old refrigerator for storing my welding rods.It is not plugged in, I just use the airtight sealing feature.
I drilled a hole and inserted a bushing thru the side to allow access with my wiring.
I have now placed 2ea. 25watt/,115 volt HEATRON strip heater elements in the bottom,below the racks, on top of a fire brick.The elements are glued to a piece of 1/8 thick aluminum plate using RED SILICONE adhesive.
This spreads the heat and prevents a hot spot on the bottom of the fridge.
This plate is resting on the fire brick.
They provide enough heat to keep the inside air over 110 degrees.
I also mounted a thermostat thru the wall to monitor temperature.
Occasionally, I will open the freezer door for a very short period,a minute or so, till I feel hot air coming up from the bottom, then I close it. This is to allow any moisture to escape that might have entered when I was accessing the rods during a job.Moist air is lighter than dry air and will rise to the top.


Hope this helps someone.
A much cheaper and simpler solution is put a light bulb socket through the back and just put a light bulb in there...depending on if your fridge is plastic or not as to what amp bulb you can use without melting the inside liner..if its an old fridge with the steel liner inside,i've put 100 watt bulbs in there and had regular temps at 150...but i wouln't want to be at or more than 100 in a plastic fridge............
All you need is enough to drive any moisture out....i use an old mini fridge at the moment,and just use a 40 watt bulb........
__________________
Don't DREAM your life, LIVE your dreams

Never forget 9/11

"Welding is like a woman,Get 'er HOT and Penetrate"

Gotta LOVE a person who knows everything about NOTHING

The only Thing necessary for the Evil to win is a good man to do nothing....

"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,compassionate with the aged,sympathetic with the striving,and tolerant with the weak and strong--because someday YOU will have been all of these"....George Washington Carver

Want to know what an Ironworker is and the job scope of a Journeyman?..click here...http://www.ironworkers.org/becoming/careers.aspx
Ironworker709 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2012, 04:25 AM   #13
1DrWillis1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: wilmington, NC
Posts: 2
welding rod storage

I took the simple route initially, but the bulbs would burn out over the long run.I didn't like to keep replacing them.When I found the heat strips(free) I decided to try them out.They have been in constant service for years without failure.
I included the info from the strips for anyone else that gets tired of changing the bulbs.
1DrWillis1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2012, 05:58 AM   #14
Kettles
Registered User
2001 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 4,176
Just from my experience on 7018, when I was in school all our rods were in the 50lb tins, and they sat on the shelf for a long time open, as we used them. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for bridges, I did pass my 3/8" thick bevel groove vertical and overhead destructive bends for the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Welder Certification just fine with those aged 7018 rods.

Like I said, not the best idea for building a bridge (no reason to take chances there) if its in non-wet conditions, it should be fine for home use for a long time.
__________________
_=====o000o
//__l_l_,\____\,____
l_--\_l__l_/--|lllll|
_.(o)_)__.(o)_)--o-)_)
"Dee", a Patriot Blue 2001 Cherokee Sport 4.0L High-Output Pictures Build Thread
The Rocket Sheep
"Live Free Or Die; Death Is Not The Worst of Evils." -General John Stark
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbucket View Post
perfect depends on how far away you are when you look at it:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millermagic View Post
It's a 4.0 ... as long as there's something in the crank case that isn't coolant I'm sure it will still run forever.
Kettles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2012, 05:33 PM   #15
BlueRubiconrich
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: worcester, Ma
Posts: 1,920
A stick welder is good for some things but maybe you should be looking into a 110 mig? I got both.If you are doing light/thin metal get a mig.
__________________
Rubicon Rich ,05 TJ Rubicon: PatriotJeepers.com
86 CJ7 258,T18,Scout Dana300,twin sticks,Dana44's,4W Disc, locked,35's,YORK OBA,Warn 8274,fullcage.
51 M100 1/4 ton Jeep trailer
BlueRubiconrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.