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Unread 06-08-2010, 08:29 PM   #16
Unlimitedlou
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Are you sure you aren't an engineer? You seem to have all your ducks in a row, but all these manufacturers have spent a considerable amount of money in research and development. After all is said and done, I think your money would be well spent in buying a tried and true surplus unit. I have seen and admire what you have designed and built, but there are other ways to save money.

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Unread 06-08-2010, 08:33 PM   #17
rustywrangler
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I gotta say bro, this would be something I would just buy. The surplus auctions are calling you.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 11:14 PM   #18
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Also, I forgot to mention this for your calculations.

If you know the flow rate of the power unit, and the area of the cylinder, then the speed that the piston moves is:

Ram Speed = Flow Rate (gpm) * 231 / Area (sq in)

that's your ram speed, then divide by your lever ratio to get the brake speed.

So a 1.1 gpm pump operating a 5" dia piston would move at 13 inches per minute with 20 tons of force on the ram. This would move a 3:1 lever at 4.3 inches per minute, with 60 tons of force on the lever.

The flow rate drops off fast the closer you get to max pressure. On a good power unit, max pressure should be limited by a relief valve, so the unit can supply good flow up to max.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 05:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcneil View Post
Also, I forgot to mention this for your calculations.

If you know the flow rate of the power unit, and the area of the cylinder, then the speed that the piston moves is:

Ram Speed = Flow Rate (gpm) * 231 / Area (sq in)

that's your ram speed, then divide by your lever ratio to get the brake speed.

So a 1.1 gpm pump operating a 5" dia piston would move at 13 inches per minute with 20 tons of force on the ram. This would move a 3:1 lever at 4.3 inches per minute, with 60 tons of force on the lever.

The flow rate drops off fast the closer you get to max pressure. On a good power unit, max pressure should be limited by a relief valve, so the unit can supply good flow up to max.

Yeah.. I've been wondering about the "speed" of the system.. good looking out on the formula.

As for purchasing a "used" unit.. You just don't see many used units on the market that are the size I need. Another thing is the weight.. all the older ones I've seen on surplus sites are usually 3 phase and weigh several thousand pounds. Also, even used ones are going for $10K+.


I've already got a hydro unit for my hydraulic tube bender. I plan on using that to test the "mechanics" of the system. I think I can get to a "testing stage" for about $1000. If it works, I'll upgrade the power unit and dies and bend away. If it doesn't work, I'll cut the 3/4" plate into clevis mounts for my bumpers..


Keep in mind, I'm not looking to bend 6ft of 1/4" plate.. at most, I'm looking at "air bending" 4-5ft of 3/16" and maybe 2-3ft of 1/4". Shoot, I built a little 12ton press that bends 6" of 1/4" to 90* with a bottle jack and scrap metal. I'm telling ya.. I can do this!!
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Unread 06-09-2010, 06:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BESRK View Post
I'm telling ya.. I can do this!!
Good luck man.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 06:49 AM   #21
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Hey Eddie I have a friend that has an Iron Worker in his shop and he bends thicker material with it than you want to. It's not made for long material, maybe 8" wide but I've seen him put 90's in 1/2" think plate 6" wide. I'll stop by there some time today and see what tonage the machine is and whatever info I can find out.

I think the biggest challenge you're going to have is making sure the top ram is in alignment with the bottom, but it can be done. You may want to look into having the moveable ram slide on hardened guide post and bushings.

This will be an interesting project. Extremely useful when you get it finished too! And yes we have no doubt you can build it too.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 09:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jim1611 View Post

I think the biggest challenge you're going to have is making sure the top ram is in alignment with the bottom, but it can be done. You may want to look into having the moveable ram slide on hardened guide post and bushings.
By using this style, the "window" that I cut out of the plate actually becomes the "ram" that the knife die is bolted to. It will ride inside the plates that are bolted to the front/back of the main frame. For the limited amount of use it's going to get, I think I can grease the contact points and minimize wear.

The die holder on the bottom will have a bit of adjustability so I can run the knife down into the "V" (to align it), and tighten it in place.

I've got alot of this already layed out in my head.. just can't articulate it well..


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Unread 06-09-2010, 10:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BESRK View Post
By using this style, the "window" that I cut out of the plate actually becomes the "ram" that the knife die is bolted to. It will ride inside the plates that are bolted to the front/back of the main frame. For the limited amount of use it's going to get, I think I can grease the contact points and minimize wear.

The die holder on the bottom will have a bit of adjustability so I can run the knife down into the "V" (to align it), and tighten it in place.

I've got alot of this already layed out in my head.. just can't articulate it well..


That sounds good to me. I'm interested in this, I'd get allot of use out of one in my shop. Like you I'd rather build it myself than buy a used machine. I like the design of the one in the pictures. I googled that shop and thought it might be something they have information on but it must have been something they custom made for someone. They still may have plans though.

Like you've mentioned, the power source could even be used to run a tubing bender. Speaking of which I got a card in the mail today from www.shopoutfitters.com and they offer a line of tubing benders. Pretty nice stuff.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 10:43 AM   #24
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Also, if you're concerned about strength, I'd be happy to run some numbers for you on that when you get a design together.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 02:38 PM   #25
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My plan for the design is to actually import that JPEG into my Torchmate CAD and use it to trace out the general pattern. That'll get me really close on the arm/shackle ratios and overall layout. I've got a couple sheets of 3/8" that I'm going to use for the arms.. basically laminating 2 pieces together for each arm.. making them 3/4" thick. Two arms per pivot (one on each side of the frame).
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Unread 09-30-2011, 12:51 PM   #26
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What ever happened with this project Eddie? I have been doing some research to build my own press brake and found this old thread.
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Unread 09-30-2011, 01:38 PM   #27
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I like to see this thing get build or progress. Ive been hangeing around GoDove acutions looking for some Frito Power for my Cherokee seen some of this equiqment like this going for 5K .
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Unread 09-30-2011, 02:24 PM   #28
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I still plan on doing this. I just got kind of sidetracked with my powder coating stuff. I was saving up my pennies to buy the parts but ended up dumping about $3000 into powder coating over the past few months. My work load was crazy all Summer long so... where I thought I'd be able to build my powdercoating oven in just a few weeks, wound up taking alot longer.

So.. as soon as the oven gets built, I'll move on to the press brake.

JohnC is doing a similar build over on Pirate. I'm kind of hoping he gets his project started first so I can see some dos/don'ts.


The other thing that moved this down the priority list was my little press brake build. I'm able to put a 90deg bend in 10" of 1/4" so that covers me on all my small brackets (CJ/TJ Frame Kits, CJ winch plate side brackets..etc.). My little brake runs off my tube bender's hydro unit and is really easy/quick to use. So.. it's taken some of the priority out of the big brake build.

However, I did get my plasma table extended out to 8ft and also built a water table for it. I've also got the table dialed in pretty well and I'm confident I can cut the plates without warpage.
I fully intend to move forward with this build though.. just gotta be patient.
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Unread 09-30-2011, 06:09 PM   #29
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as far as the hydraulics go , build it to 20% more than ever needed . or more . have a safety cushion . as the diameter of the ram goes up your working pressure will drop . go big . love to see this done . hope you do it .
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Unread 10-01-2011, 05:47 AM   #30
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as far as the hydraulics go , build it to 20% more than ever needed . or more . have a safety cushion . as the diameter of the ram goes up your working pressure will drop . go big . love to see this done . hope you do it .
Hmmm... I thought it wouldn't matter what size the system is.. since fluid doesn't compress, the pressure should remain the same no matter how large the cylinder is.. provided the reservoir doesn't run out of fluid.

I would think that, all things being equal, a larger cylinder just allows you to attain a higher capacity (in lbs of "push") at the same hydraulic pressure.

I read the manual on the hydraulic power unit I want to buy. The unit will produce 2000psi.

The 5" diameter cylinder has an area of 19.625sqin (radius x radius x pie.... 2.5"x2.5"x3.14=19.625")

Multiply that 19.625 by 2000psi and I should get 39,250lbs of push from that cylinder.

Using a 3:1 ratio in those arms, I'm looking at 3x39,250=117,750lbs of force pushing down at the end of those arms.

Add the shackles at the bottom and as those shackles approach "overcenter" they'll compound that force even more. So, I should easily be up in the 60 ton+ range with that setup.

To "air bend" 3/16" material in a 1.5" die, I need 11.2 tons per linear foot. So.. for 48", I'll need 44.8 tons.

To "air bend" 1/4" material in a 2" die, I need 15.3 tons per linear foot.
So.. for 48", I'll need 61.2 tons.
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