On the other hand, I guess I wasn't clear enough in explaining, or breaking my theory down Barney style for simple ****s like Climbit
wait.. what? becuase you did not understand what you were asking for, nor did you listen to what people were saying it is somehow my fault?
yes, I understand that there has to be triangulation between the axle and frame
i.e. horizontal spread of the links from the frame end to the axle. That picture I posted with the orange links was simply an example. Not once did I say "I'm going to build my suspension just like this!" Frankly, I didn't even notice that the picture given had no lateral separation of the links at the axle end. Once again -- it was purely an EXAMPLE.
ok so you said you didn't need a panhard for a radius arm system, then when several people told you that you would, instead of listening you then posted a picture of a radius arm system that uses a panhard to prove us wrong. so naturally anyone would assume you were going to design your suspension like the example you posted, and try not running a panhard, which would be a very bad idea.
My apologies to ssyj94 for getting a little bent out of shape over his post. I don't usually have my wits fully about me when I'm on here first thing in the morning...I work from 3 p.m. to 3 a.m. every day, so sometimes I'm a little cranky.
To save everyone else the entertainment of an "internet arguement" I'll simply ask to just stop posting unless you have something constructive to add to the discussion.
I, along with others, was trying to help you by informing you that your example radius arm system would need a panhard... but you ignored that because you were too busy being offended.
You have been nothing but argumentative with everyone because you apparently know everything about anything. My apologies, I did not realize I was in the presence of the Jeep God. I am not interested (nor would anyone else be for that matter) in someone making a poor attempt to flex their internet muscles as if to say "I've got bigger balls than you." Over an internet forum? Really?
I've been arguing the physics of a suspension in a thread about suspension...how dare me.
Let me try and be completely clear with what my original theory was -- I understand that radius arms need a panhard bar to prohibit lateral movement. The orange links in the picture are radius arms...I understand that.
then why all the arguing
I know I called them y-links. They are, in fact, y-links though, am I wrong? Are y-links not the same basic principal as radius arms?
Yes, they are. in most cases.
But what's the difference? The upper short link...aah, there it is, that's what makes them stand out from standard radius arms... The orange arms have the same BASIC design that I had in mind, minus the horizontal spread at the axle, and a larger "triangle" in the upper short links, if you could call them that.
by horizontal spread do you mean the lack of triangulation, IE the links are almost parallel? because if you do, then I think I understand you.
Along with the shorter uppers, they would have more horizontal separation between them and the lowers. If I could work a Paint program that well, I'd draw you a picture. Or if I had access to SolidWorks...at any rate, I hope this description was clear enough to get my point across. I think at least Cresso and fratis understand what I was getting at.
now that you actually said what you were thinking of doing I can understand what you are thinking. I honestly don't know that what you are describing would work. but at the very least you would need a panhard to control the axle for the steering links. and that would induce some bind, how much or where depends on your link geometry and length. unless you went full Hydro, that would solve that problem. but you still may end up with too much lateral movement.
And by the way, no, I was not completely ignoring anyone that was telling me this simply wouldn't work. I was trying to get a clear answer as to why it wouldn't work. But then again, I wasn't clear enough with my description of what I had in mind.
alright... well to be perfectly clear, the rusty's kit you posted a picture of would not work without a panhard. any traditional radius arm suspension wont.
I will tell you that even with a panhard they are very popular amongst the go-fast jeep desert crowd. nearly every Jeepspeed style jeep I have seen uses radius arms in the front, it works well for those guys so it would probably work well for your. the sports are similar enough.
This might be a lost cause, but I'll try a few more Paint doodles. If you're still not a believer, we can agree to disagree. No harm done.
I believe that with the proper amount of triangulation you could keep the axle centered to the links. however there are other things to consider. once you start moving that axle up and down and articulating it, twisting it, etc you are going to get a lot of side-side movement, you will change the link relationships and then you are going to be very unhappy.
The triangulation can be between any adjacent lines in the square, as we discussed above. The reason for this is that a triangle with fixed length sides has fixed angles. We can even calculate those angles using the length of the links and the cosine rule. In the picture below, drawing 1 has this relationship. If you want, you can think of the black line as our lower link, the blue line as the axle and the red line as our upper "link". Assuming that all three lines stay the same length, simple geometry states that the angles also have to stay the same.
right, but now swing those lines in an arc, add in some axle rotation and where are you.
Drawings 2 and 3 illustrate the impossibility of changing the angles of the triangle while maintaining the same line length. Make the angle larger and the red line no longer reaches. Make the angle smaller and the red line is too long.
I'm not saying you would get a lot of lateral movement, but how much is acceptable? once you start rotation of the links and things start moving you are going to end up with some lateral movement. whether or not that is within acceptable boundaries depends on the specific link geometry.
if you really want to run a radius arm suspension, run it with a panhard, and eliminate one of the upper links. then you will not get the bind inherent in the design. (think IRO) just use a bolt larger than 10mm and don't use that silly caster adjuster plate