Tbi 350 Swap to 700r4 - JeepForum.com

 
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-08-2015, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
AZdEvilYJ
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Yj Tbi 350 Swap to 700r4

So Im in the beginning stages of my 350 swap and have been trying to find an answer to my question with little to no luck.

Background:
My tbi 350 came from a 1994 Chevy c1500 backed by 4l60e.
The tranny I pulled is a 1988 700r4 with the 231c HD from and s10 Blazer.

Question:
What do I need to do to the trans or ECU to get them to work together correctly (ie shift, set idle, etc). Do I need to send the ecu for a tune or do I need any certain electronics from the donor s10 or c1500?

From what Ive read the ECU and TCM "talk" in the 1994 but what consequences will this leave with the 700r4??

I do not have the TCM from the 4l60e or wiring for the 700r4 as of now, but the junkyards are a plenty.


Thanks!


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post #2 of 14 Old 06-08-2015, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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I may have found the answer to my own question, but advice and knowledge is still welcome.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but if i'm understanding correctly, instead of the computer controlled shifts like the 4l60e, the 700r4 uses a throttle valve cable for shifting and a brake switch circuit relay to control the lock up for the converter.

The lack of TCM may only just throw a CE code unless I can get it tuned out. I'm still unsure if performance is affected.

Heres a link to the brake switch to control lockup
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata...php?ITEMID=332

and some FYI about the TV cable
http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php

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post #3 of 14 Old 06-08-2015, 06:44 PM
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I know my 700r in my jeep with my 4.0 I just had to get the detent cable fitted correctly. I think your thinking of a 4l60 that's a ECU shift trans.

But this is going back ten years or more now so, ya........

Jason.

1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f149/...buggy-3693817/
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post #4 of 14 Old 06-08-2015, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
AZdEvilYJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m
I know my 700r in my jeep with my 4.0 I just had to get the detent cable fitted correctly. I think your thinking of a 4l60 that's a ECU shift trans. But this is going back ten years or more now so, ya........ Jason.
TV cable aka detent or kickdown. Yea the 4l60e is comp controlled, but my motor had the 4l60e and I'm goin to use the 700 so I was curious if my motor would have any issues not using the 4l60e

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post #5 of 14 Old 06-08-2015, 09:09 PM
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The TV cable is not a kickdown cable and must be adjusted properly or you'll have serious problems. It has to be pulled by linkage on your carb. When you step on the gas pedal half way, the TV cable must be pulled half way. 1/4 push of the pedal pulls the cable 1/4 way, and so forth. That's how the tranny determines when to shift. Get that wrong and it will shift early, or late, slip or jamb in gear. Better off with a 4l60e
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post #6 of 14 Old 06-08-2015, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahreno
The TV cable is not a kickdown cable and must be adjusted properly or you'll have serious problems. It has to be pulled by linkage on your carb. When you step on the gas pedal half way, the TV cable must be pulled half way. 1/4 push of the pedal pulls the cable 1/4 way, and so forth. That's how the tranny determines when to shift. Get that wrong and it will shift early, or late, slip or jamb in gear. Better off with a 4l60e
The 4l60e was 2wd and no good.

I understand the TV cable thing, and I also posted an informative link about the TV cable. I used detent and kickdown as alternative names since the name Tends to be interchanged on many forums although they are very different.

All that aside, my question still stands... What are the consequences of going to a 700r4 from the 4l60e as far as the computer controls are concerned.

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post #7 of 14 Old 06-09-2015, 05:40 AM
jason m
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I now understand your question regarding your motors computer. I'm pretty sure its not going to sense that the trans is different. Worst case if it does just send it out to be flashed and have that part eliminated from the computer.

Jason.

1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt...
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f149/...buggy-3693817/
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-09-2015, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
AZdEvilYJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
I now understand your question regarding your motors computer. I'm pretty sure its not going to sense that the trans is different. Worst case if it does just send it out to be flashed and have that part eliminated from the computer.

Jason.
What it will sense is that the transmission is not there and corresponding sensors. I think that a flash would be in order.

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post #9 of 14 Old 11-27-2015, 02:07 PM
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Tbi 350 Swap to 700r4

If your using a tbi engine you can research the chips for the computer and find the 4 letter code for the bin file chip you need and just change the chip to one with the 700r4 trans. There's people that sell them online. There is only one plug for the trans I believe and it's a four pin plug for the lockup on the 700r4. Different computers can have a slightly different Pinout to wire in the trans plug so you'll have to get the diagram for yours.
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post #10 of 14 Old 11-28-2015, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
AZdEvilYJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haro504
If your using a tbi engine you can research the chips for the computer and find the 4 letter code for the bin file chip you need and just change the chip to one with the 700r4 trans. There's people that sell them online. There is only one plug for the trans I believe and it's a four pin plug for the lockup on the 700r4. Different computers can have a slightly different Pinout to wire in the trans plug so you'll have to get the diagram for yours.
The problem I think with that, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that GM changed computers in 91-92 IIRC, from the single black plug (older tbi with 700r4) to the new computers with a red and a blue plug. Although both obd1, they are different designs and use totally different chips. The only option is to tune your existing chip I believe.

I'm actually in the finishing stages of this swap and have been troubleshooting a similar issue.

I have crank power to the starter when I jump terminals on the relay box, but no power with the relay installed. Also there is no spark or injector pulse when cranking.

Is it possible because the ecu is not sensing a neutral safety switch that it is not allowing the motor to run?


Here is how I jumped the starter relay terminals
Name:  image-3274664887.jpg
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Size:  504.8 KB

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post #11 of 14 Old 12-06-2015, 11:37 AM
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Tbi 350 Swap to 700r4

I have the 1227747 ecm and I had the neutral switch grounded and I also had it open and it didn't change the starting ability. I don't know about any others though. I believe it just lets the ecm know your moving so it alters deceleration and increases the rpm in gear. Also it didn't sense my vss till I ungrounded it. Do you have the right wire going to the ecm that supply's battery voltage while cranking. I used the positive coil wire. The wire your using to jump looks like it's connecting the positive feed for the latching section of the relay. I believe there is supposed to be ground directly across which would be the bottom in the picture. When you put power and ground to those two it allows the plug on the right which would have your power (that is supposed to be connected) to connect to the left plug. The right one is connected to the center one normally when it's sitting unswitched.
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post #12 of 14 Old 12-06-2015, 11:49 AM
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Name:  ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1449427688.987559.jpg
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Size:  31.6 KB I don't know if this photo will upload but keep in mind it's the bottom of the relay so it will look upside down
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post #13 of 14 Old 12-06-2015, 12:14 PM
haro504
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Tbi 350 Swap to 700r4

Md8 is the 700r4 code, M30 is 4l60e. Look up your ecm number and engine size and the trans code to find a bcc that will work. You might have to get a custom chip or change some stuff around but it's a start. You might have to change your wiring but you should be able to use a ecm from another year as long as you get the wiring to match the computer. I believe you might have to splice in a different connector here or there ( the Throttle position sensor can be different on different years) but you should be able to get it to run
http://www.scotthansen.net/BCCLookup.pdf
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post #14 of 14 Old 12-06-2015, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
AZdEvilYJ
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Thanks for that info!! I already ordered and installed my current harness from Howell which is for the current ecu.

What I found researching that the dizzy may be the reason for my no start. I poked around and found my cap was broken or faulty ign. Module, so I ordered a new cap, rotor, and ign module from DUI distributors. Headed home now to see if that helps

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