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Unread 10-31-2012, 01:04 AM   #91
Motas
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Was thinking that too but don't have much experience fabricating and don't think I could even do that accurately but I have a few projects to do before this to see how I go. I have a decent amount of experience in CAD though and I'm confident I can draw it accurately. I don't think I will run into too many problems though, I am not doing a stretch so cant hit the fuel tank really and I am getting a new exhaust anyway so cant hit that and those are the main things in the way aren't they? Driveshaft is there too but shouldn't have much of an issue there either. Because I will be doing a brute stretch too the body wont be an issue at all.
How much of a real world difference does the centre of gravity make to the ride? I am not using the entire brute kit but would like to do the suspension at the same time as the chassis stretch so would it be ok to use a similarly modified brute to do the calculations and put it on mine or would it be better to wait and work off mine? Just adds a lot of work that's all and theres a brute in aus modified basically exactly what I want except with the brute tub not my plan.
Thanks for everyones help too its a huge advantage to have this information available and especially the posts in similar threads on here have helped me a lot. And I think I have most of what I need so hopefully wont be asking too much more and will try and help out others later.

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Unread 10-31-2012, 06:39 AM   #92
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Motas, you'll end up spending a bunch of time drawing things out and once you get under there, you'll realize you wasted a lot of time. Instead, spend that time gaining more knowledge and a deeper understanding of what the parts do, how they move, where the seemingly arbitrary numbers are derived from, etc. A true understanding and comprehension of this stuff trumps the calculator or a CAD program.

One more thing I forgot to mention earlier in regards to AS--your upper mounts should have a few vertical options. The closer the upper and lower links are at the frame, the higher then AS will be. For example, with the upper links in the highest setting in my mounts, I'm sitting at 58% AS according to the calc. In the middle, I'm sitting at 96% and in the bottom hole I'm at 135%. Calculator aside, the top hole is likely where I'll stay since I prefer predictability and no hopping. Use what you know to set the positioning of the axle and lower frame mounts and leave some adjustment for the uppers at the frame.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 11:54 AM   #93
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Quote:
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Was thinking that too but don't have much experience fabricating and don't think I could even do that accurately but I have a few projects to do before this to see how I go. I have a decent amount of experience in CAD though and I'm confident I can draw it accurately.
Trust me, man...I work with CAD every single day and even if you're exceptionally fast it's going to be a waste of time. Here's why: when you go to take the physical measurements for your mounting points and linkages, etc, you're already doing exactly what you will do again in the future when you have the CAD diagram in front of you. You start from a rough approximation of your goals and then you measure, re-measure, tack-in-place, check, cycle and repeat. The CAD diagram of the starting point becomes useless, no matter how good your skillz might be.

You have to remember that the entire point of the discussion is whether or not your theoretical layout will actually work for your intended purposes...and neither the CAD layout or the linkage calculators are going to tell you this. They might help you with some target numbers and material requirements, but they're not really going to do much more; thus, Imped's suggestion in regards to spending that time educating yourself suspension-wise and not getting hung up in the pre-planning was really on-point. That's a more solid route to success than attempting to do the CAD layout of the front and rear of your rig.

Of course, if you just want to spend the time drawing it all in accurately, more power and props to you. I of all people can respect insane attention to detail.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 12:17 PM   #94
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Motas, let's say you're coming over to my place for help with your 4 link. You bring all of the parts and intend to first draw out your CAD diagram, play with the link calc, etc. I ask you a few questions to get a better idea of what you're looking to do in terms of wheelbase, shock travel, tire size, etc. By the time you get all of that done to a point that makes you feel good, I'll have your frame cleaned off, new link brackets welded to the rig, control arms built and will be setting up your bump stops and shock mounts after determining what hits and where.

It's just a waste of time. Your time will be better spent determining the bolded items, purchasing the required parts, and committing by cutting some stuff off and moving some stuff out.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #95
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Your time will be better spent determining the bolded items, purchasing the required parts, and committing by cutting some stuff off and moving some stuff out.
And then your daily-driven rig doesn't move for at least two months, if you're me.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 05:21 PM   #96
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...no matter how good your skillz might be.
Are skillz on a higher level of mastery than skills?

He's right. I watch my wife play with CAD at home sometimes and it can be very time consuming. Better just to forgo it completely.
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Unread 11-01-2012, 05:43 PM   #97
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Are skillz on a higher level of mastery than skills?
Yes, but they're not quite as high as Skeelz are...
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Unread 11-01-2012, 07:53 PM   #98
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Are skillz on a higher level of mastery than skills?
That they are indeed. Ask yourself: how many typographic errors do I usually make, and how often do those rare ones stay uncorrected?

You're right, though...CAD is time-consuming and really not for this purpose. I drew out my last project to get a material list and because I wasn't in an "it will reveal itself" situation; no way I'm doing that with the suspension links, though. Same with the battery relocation...we just made a properly-sized cardboard box and started looking at where it might fit. Likewise, the links show you where they need to go and what they'll hit.

The only thing I can think of that might end up being drawn in CAD would be my truss design, and that's if I go with something that needs to be laser-cut and welded up.
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Unread 11-04-2012, 08:56 PM   #99
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I was planning to draw it in CAD to either have it laser cut and I'll weld it or to be professionally fabricated. I do not have enough skill cutting to make a truss and mounts and not sure if I want to weld it myself or not, depends how I go with less important projects. Besides that I also like to get practice in CAD for my planned future job. I do understand how anti squat is calculated and what affect moving links will have on it so don't really need the calculator for that but still reading up on roll axis. I also understand what affect each will have on ride but since I haven't driven with different setups not sure what each feels like.
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Unread 11-04-2012, 09:33 PM   #100
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Any links for good info on basic design? Not sure where to start reading?
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Unread 11-05-2012, 07:46 AM   #101
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Any links for good info on basic design? Not sure where to start reading?
Have you read this entire thread? I've dropped a few very good links in here.....
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Unread 11-05-2012, 07:51 AM   #102
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Have you read this entire thread? I've dropped a few very good links in here.....
And I'll be happy to suggest some books, if you like... but get ready to spend some money on them.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #103
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I'll go back through the link, some seemed like they just jumped right in, but maybe thats what I need.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #104
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I'll go back through the link, some seemed like they just jumped right in, but maybe thats what I need.
Well, there's really no "entry level" to this stuff. You'll either get it or you won't.
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Unread 11-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #105
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And I'll be happy to suggest some books, if you like... but get ready to spend some money on them.
Suggest away. Couldn't be any worse than a college text book.
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