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Unread 10-08-2012, 04:58 PM   #46
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Nope, Kevin's truss will have no problems.

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Unread 10-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #47
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Hard to tell with the shiny paint, but is that the Artec truss? Artec builds NICE stuff-and no, no issues with one of those.

Spyder-Nice JK!

Best of Luck,

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Unread 10-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #48
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yeah, thats an artec truss
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Unread 10-08-2012, 06:50 PM   #49
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Me on the other hand I'm firm believer that a truss needs to be tied into every spot including the center section even the tubes needs to be welded to the center section.
Ive seen to many simple truss's bend and tubes twist factory plug welds, heck I even twisted a 14 bolt at the tube years ago.

My old 14 bolt,









That 14 bolt toke years of abuse and never gave me any issue's, now that current axle went under a KOH buggy and will get plenty of use there.

Current 60 rear,



That 2x2 1/4 wall tube is welded to the center section in two spots and I have it bolted using the Chevy spring pad hole's and I even drilled and taped 4 extra bolt holes.
I added a extra chunk of 1.5" to span the rest of the area only because I had planed on coil buckets going back there.

My front 60 that I was going to use.



Thats 2x3 3/16" wall and a chunk of 1/4" welded to the center chunk.

Again I over buld, Ive seen to many axle truss's fold and take out alot more than just a few joints.

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Unread 10-09-2012, 03:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
...Again I over buld, Ive seen to many axle truss's fold and take out alot more than just a few joints.
I guess that's a good example of what's possible when you have lots of room in which you can work. I'm already worried about how much I'm going to have to move the tank/crossmember in order to get more uptravel, and that's with no truss in place at all.
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Unread 10-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
I guess that's a good example of what's possible when you have lots of room in which you can work. I'm already worried about how much I'm going to have to move the tank/crossmember in order to get more uptravel, and that's with no truss in place at all.
Fuel cell in the rear, I'm sure you all ready thought of that.
I know that adds to the bottom line cost but a under built truss and big leveraged tire's dont mix, then add in what we are asking the rigs to do along with locked axle's and low gears it puts alot on a OEM axle, one ton or not.

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Unread 10-09-2012, 04:32 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by jason m View Post
big leveraged tire's
While I certainly agree with the logic and it appears you do nice work, THIS is key. I'd be running a full truss as well if I ran 39.5" tires, regardless of what axle I had. In my opinion, for the majority of folks running smallish 35" and under, it's a bit overkill. Anything can fail, I think we can all agree to that. Common sense goes a long way-whether it be skinny, size, setup, build, etc. Sometimes it isn't the size or amount of steel used, but the engineering behind it that makes it work. With my rig on 33s and POSSIBLY 35s, I have no doubt simplicity and lighter weight will work just fine. Hell, I've beat on it this long now without, this is just added insurance as far as I'm concerned. Keep in mind, I'm talking specifically about smallish tires. I agree 100% with bigger meats. Just my opinion.

Best of Luck,

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Unread 10-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #53
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I can some what agree Mike, but you say smaller tires that means smaller axle's, like 44's or 8.8's. So it in my mind it evens out, smaller axle's and smaller tires but in the same league as me on one tons and 39's.

See the point I'm making???

A true rear truss should go from flange to flange, but thats under very hard conditions like jumping alot. So for general crawling or hard wheeling abuse covering 80% of the tube's IMO is enough.

Sundowner insteed of building up build out, you can angle the truss back and it will still serve a purpose. Not like a truss thats in line with the tube's like right over the top of the housing.
But none the less will help with deflectching in a housing.

Build it right the first time and it will out last the life of the rest of the rig, build it wrong or not enough and you will be like me coming off a trail with a crack housing and twisting tube.





Jason.
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Unread 10-11-2012, 05:05 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
Fuel cell in the rear, I'm sure you all ready thought of that.
I know that adds to the bottom line cost but a under built truss and big leveraged tire's dont mix, then add in what we are asking the rigs to do along with locked axle's and low gears it puts alot on a OEM axle, one ton or not.
I did think of that, yes, but keeping as much storage in the rear as possible is the paramount concern; so, no fuel cell relocated to that area. I've thought about doing some gas-tank tuckage, but haven't really decided on how it will happen, yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 55willystruck View Post
In my opinion, for the majority of folks running smallish 35" and under, it's a bit overkill. Anything can fail, I think we can all agree to that. Common sense goes a long way-whether it be skinny, size, setup, build, etc. Sometimes it isn't the size or amount of steel used, but the engineering behind it that makes it work. With my rig on 33s and POSSIBLY 35s, I have no doubt simplicity and lighter weight will work just fine. Hell, I've beat on it this long now without, this is just added insurance as far as I'm concerned. Keep in mind, I'm talking specifically about smallish tires. I agree 100% with bigger meats.
I'm all for overdoing something, but I agree that common sense has to have a place in the build scheme. Furthermore, I'd submit that there is a point in every system in which overkill begins to hurt much more than help; this could be in any aspect, ranging from financial to geometric. I'm looking at 35's for the foreseeable future, so a truss is very much "added insurance." If I was seriously looking to 37's, then I'd likely be thinking of a different axle altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
I can some what agree Mike, but you say smaller tires that means smaller axle's, like 44's or 8.8's. So it in my mind it evens out, smaller axle's and smaller tires but in the same league as me on one tons and 39's. See the point I'm making???
Yep, it's a scaled comparison. I'm not going to mathematically analyze 39's on tons in comparison to 35's on a 44, but unless the numbers are way off it makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by jason m View Post
Sundowner insteed of building up build out, you can angle the truss back and it will still serve a purpose. Not like a truss thats in line with the tube's like right over the top of the housing. But none the less will help with deflectching in a housing.
I thought about that, but I'm still sort of into the gas tank's vicinity and I'm not sure what that'll do to my upper link geometry on the axle end. I'd like to keep the upper ends close to centered over the tubes and the lowers directly in front of the tubes...that seems to be a very workable arrangement and it gives good ground clearance. I like the thought of taking something out to the flanges on either side - that'd be massively strong - but I'm still not settled into what I'm going to do about springs and shocks; it's either outboard the shocks and relocate the springs into some semblance of alignment, or do a lot of the same work and go to coilovers. That kind of has a bearing on what I do with the truss. I really want to get everything cut off of the rear axle and then take a look at it as a clean canvas - that'd be the absolute best way to see where I want my links - and then decide what to do, but there's no way I can take that long to do the four-link rear. I need to have her off the road for less than a month or two.
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Unread 10-11-2012, 07:23 PM   #55
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What about a smaller profile fuel cell but still under the Jeep in the OEM spot. This way you can still have your stroage in the back and cell under the Jeep.
To me its very critical to have those upper mounts on the top and as close together as they can be, well withen reasion.

Sometimes I need to take a step back from the way I build and look at it like from your veiw.
Me I don't care what I needed to get to the spot I have now, if it ment chopping off whatever was in way I did it.
You on the other hand are building on another scale, you still want the look of a Jeep and want it to look clean.
Me I'm form over function.

This why I'm done building my Jeep and will start a buggy, thats what I wanted all along and now I have the time to do it.
Sorry if I make my suggestions seem simple to me, I just forget most dont want the Jeep looking haggerd, me as long as I have fun I dont care what it looks like

Jason.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 07:19 AM   #56
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I just wanted to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread. Truly some great tech and I have learned a lot
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Unread 10-12-2012, 10:08 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m
What about a smaller profile fuel cell but still under the Jeep in the OEM spot. This way you can still have your stroage in the back and cell under the Jeep.
Allow me to throw a wrench in that otherwise-sensible suggestion by stating that I'd actually like a bigger tank.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 10:55 AM   #58
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Finally some good tech. Subbed for later reading, probably repeatedly.
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Unread 10-12-2012, 11:16 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner

Allow me to throw a wrench in that otherwise-sensible suggestion by stating that I'd actually like a bigger tank.
I second that!
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Unread 10-13-2012, 05:53 PM   #60
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I second that!
The real problem I had (not a problem at all really) is that my little girl loves riding in the Jeep so I had NO option of a fuel cell for my build as I need all the back seat room I have. I will NOT sacrifice her seat for anything as I want to keep her interested long term-and I love that she still loves her Daddy. When she's older and can ride up front, or drive, then I'll reconsider but for now she's only 3 1/2 and I'm not ready. Yes, I'm wrapped around her little finger... I really worry once the teenage years hit, Dad won't be so cool anymore and I'll lose her to other things. Trying to keep it fun for as long as I can...

Anyway, I'll be at Rimrock the 22nd through end of elk season first week of November. If you want to stop by and see the rig, you're welcome any time. I've tucked the factory tank (19 gallon) as high as you possibly can without cutting the tub and pushed it back as far as I can, all with a 1.25" BL equivalent. I say equivalent as I'm running my own home-built center mounts with no pucks there. It required cutting/modding the rear crossmember in the LJ, modding the Savvy gas skid, modding the under side of the tub and a few other things, but it worked. I'm roughly 4" over stock height and it might possibly give you a few ideas to consider. Certainly not the only way, and may not be the "best" way either but it worked for me and I'm happy with it. On my low slung LJ, I need all the help I can get. I'll be delivering a few parts to the area and will be around for a couple weeks up at Rimrock. If you would like to stop by, send me a note and I'll get you directions.

Best of Luck,

Mike
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