Propane injected 4.7L Stroker build for my MJ - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Advanced Jeep Tech > Propane injected 4.7L Stroker build for my MJ

*VOTE NOW Help Metalcloak Giveaway an XJ Suspension*Introducing MONSTALINER™ UV Permanent DIY Roll On Bed LineExtremeTerrain GROUP BUY: Barricade Rear Bumpers/Tire Carr

Reply
Unread 02-09-2012, 10:47 PM   #1
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
Propane injected 4.7L Stroker build for my MJ

I guess I could have chosen a few different parts to make this a little easier on myself when it comes time to installing the engine in my Jeep, and being able to figure out how I'm going to run all of my accessories once it's all in, but I guess that's what makes it custom.

Here is the run down:
99 or 00 WJ 4.0 block
04 TJ TUPY revised 0331 head
4.0 connecting rods
AMC 258/CJ7 4.2L crank
Keith Black forged pistions- IC945-060- .060 over with 10.80cc dish
COMP Cams 68-239-4 Cam and Lifter Kit
COMP Cams High Energy Timing Chain Set - 3219
Victor Reinz/Full Gasket Set - 95-3568VR
GotPropane.com conversion kit
And possibly a Clifford carburated 4.0L intake manifold if I can spare the funds

I decided to go with the 99+ Wj/00+ TJ block originally because I had intended on building this for a 00+ TJ, but plans changed. I decided to stick with it for several reasons, ease of installation was not one of them.
For starters, it was free. It had been swapped because the previous owner had failed to change the oil for quite some time, causing sludge build up, so bad that eventually it spun the #1 rod bearing due to lack of oil.
It had enough miles on it that the block is close to whats called a seasoned block. After several years/miles of being heated up and cooled off, an engine will shift and distort as molecules realign themselves through a slow heat treat process, causing parts to not quite line up as perfectly as the day everything was machined. Lots of engine builders prefer old, high mileage engine blocks over a brand new one, for this very reason, believing after you go through and bore it out, deck it, and line hone it, you are not going to have any more movement since they are starting with a block that has already been heat treated, and everything has settled.
The 99+ WJ and 00+TJ blocks are a little different than the earlier style, and has a lot thicker castings around the cam shaft to fix a problem with the cams shaking themselves apart at high RPMs(higher than most factory 4.0s will ever see, but none the less), and have thicker cylinder walls, able to support up to .080 over, safely. Both may not be needed, but better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

I wanted the head because, despite how everyone says the older heads flow better, I like the late model exhaust headers better, and since I'm doing all the port work myself, I'm confident I can open the exhaust ports up enough to make them flow similar numbers to the older heads. That and the head only has 13,000 miles on it. Yes I know that goes against the logic of using a seasoned block, but this way I don't have to have a bunch of machine work done, and if it gives me any problems, I'll just upgrade to a Hesco aluminum head.

Why Propane?
Originally I wanted to build this motor to put in a 00+ TJ with the coil ignition, and run it on E85, but I decided to build a Comanche instead. Well the Comanche has the old RENIX FI system, and I'm not a fan of it, too many quirks, and I still don't like that it has an EGR valve. I could do a HO swap and update everything to OBD 1 or 2, but then I would have to cut and splice wiring(I hate wiring!), and I would still have to fight a computer tuning the engine.
With Propane, I pull out all of the computer controlled stuff and bring it all back to a carbureted style setup, using a propane injector in place of a carb. Clean, plain, simple, easy to work on, easy to tune, and for as little as this will be driven over long distances, it will work for me.

Now for the pics:

The donor block



#1 rod journal

Sluge build up in the timing cover

The oil filter




4.2L Crank

I was really trying to get a crank from a carburated YJ, since they have the short snout, but due to a mix up at the shop I bought it from, didn't have one to sell me, so they threw in the spacer for free.




Keith Black forged goodness






__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-09-2012, 10:51 PM   #2
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
Block and head just got back from being thermo blasted today, stripped the entire thing down to the bare cast iron.





This should make working on it a lot more enjoyable, especially with how sludged up the block was.


Spent part of class going through and tapping all of the bolt holes out, this will make it a lot easier to assemble, and ensure I don't get any false torque readings from boogered up threads.
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-10-2012, 05:46 AM   #3
GregStephens2
Registered User
2004 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 654
I've got a buddy who's running a 4.0 xj on propane.
I'll see if I can get him to check out this thread!
__________________
Greg Stephens/Arboreal Specialties
http://www.arborealspecialties.com/Home.html
GregStephens2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2012, 10:21 PM   #4
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
Spent a little time working on the head tonight. I've been putzing around with this head on and off for maybe a year and a half, I have about 60% of the intake and exhaust ports gasket matched and roughed in, as well as several of the combustion chambers roughed in. I finally got the #1-2 cylinder intake ports about 90% finished tonight, down to the final polishing.

Stock intake port


Ported and polished


I'm not sure I'm satisfied with the roof of the bowl, there is a pretty hard turn at the back of the port at the turn down into the combustion chamber. With all of the material I removed from the valve guide, it makes the turn a lot more noticeable. Air doesn't like to make hard turns like that, really slows down air flow. A common way to take care of something like this is to use an epoxy putty to build the area up, and then grind into a more flow friendly shape. Not sure if I really want to bother with it though.

Originally I had plans of using the COMP Cams 68-232-4 cam and stock intake and exhaust valves, but in light of my larger port job it was decided to make the most of it. COMP Cams 68-239-4 and LS1 Intake and Exhaust valves were decided on, as well as LS6 valve springs.
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2012, 12:42 AM   #5
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
In other news, I've been emailing M.O.R.E. and Brown Dog about block brackets. Both of them say that they have what I need. For the complete bracket and motor mount, BD is about $75 cheeper, has free shipping, and a 10% discount through JF, but MOREs brackets hit more bolt bosses(7/8 vs BDs 6/7), and don't come in that ugly yellow. Here is what I've been able to work out, MORE is willing to sell me their block bracket just tacked together for a discounted price, making them a good bit cheeper than the BD ones. This also allows me to cut tacks and easily modify the bracket if need be. Although getting the motor mounts from MORE would wash any savings made by welding the brackets myself, so I will be going to BD for the motor mounts, I'll just have to sand blast the yellow off and repaint them before they go on the Jeep. In all, it will save me about $40 from buying everything from BD, and $115 from MORE.
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-24-2012, 05:42 PM   #6
richharr
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 405
what kind of power numbers are you going to get out of this setup?
__________________
93 4.0l 5 spd, 33s 4" lift
Quote:
1. This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds.
richharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-24-2012, 07:31 PM   #7
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by richharr View Post
what kind of power numbers are you going to get out of this setup?
Educated guesstimate, somewhere in the ballpark of around 330 HP-400 ft/lbs
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-25-2012, 12:42 PM   #8
RockScar
Registered User
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockRodHooligan View Post
Educated guesstimate, somewhere in the ballpark of around 330 HP-400 ft/lbs
That is awesome. Would you see similar numbers in a FI gas setup? What is your estimated budget? How much of that is for the LP stuff?

__________________
Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.
www.freestateproject.org
RockScar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-26-2012, 12:12 PM   #9
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockScar View Post
That is awesome. Would you see similar numbers in a FI gas setup? What is your estimated budget? How much of that is for the LP stuff?

I had initially planned to run this setup with E85, so I know it will run on that, I really don't know how 91/93 octane would do. I guess it would be possible if you aren't putting it under heavy load, or hitting the red line, tune it to run a little rich when you do? But that would take a lot of time with a tuner, and you wouldn't be getting all of the performance potential out of it.

I'll have $1200 in the intake manifold and propane kit, I'd say I'll have close to $1500 in parts specifically for the conversion, plus the tanks. My situation may not be the best example, since my FI system isn't the optimal starting point, I'm starting from scratch
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-27-2012, 11:27 PM   #10
DezertXj88
Senior Member
1990 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: somewhere in the dust, Ca
Posts: 789
You don't think the valve guides or boss are a little too thinned out? I'm asking because I'm porting my renix head currently for my 4.2L mini stroker build...using a 232 crank! Yup out of the norm lol..but it'll be a fun little project.


Also what bits are you using? So far all I've used is a few stones & some paper rolls. Thinking of buying 1 or 2 carbide bits though..whats your take?
Also so sure if you've planned or doing so, but the exhaust side can gain ALOT of flow with little work, also might try to unsroud the exhaust valve in the combustion chamber some! I smoothed my exhaust ports till they were glassy smooth to try and keep the velocity up as well. .
DezertXj88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-28-2012, 05:33 AM   #11
Ibnzmonkey
Registered User
2002 KJ Liberty 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 202
Mother of non existant valve guides... Someone went way too crazy into the "porting".
Ibnzmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-28-2012, 06:41 AM   #12
Millermagic
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, New York
Posts: 1,889
That must have been 20k or 30k on an oil change!
__________________
2000 XJ - 3.5'' Lift & Skinny Mudders.
Previous: A CJ, Few TJs and JK.
Millermagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #13
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DezertXj88 View Post
You don't think the valve guides or boss are a little too thinned out? I'm asking because I'm porting my renix head currently for my 4.2L mini stroker build...using a 232 crank! Yup out of the norm lol..but it'll be a fun little project.


Also what bits are you using? So far all I've used is a few stones & some paper rolls. Thinking of buying 1 or 2 carbide bits though..whats your take?
Also so sure if you've planned or doing so, but the exhaust side can gain ALOT of flow with little work, also might try to unsroud the exhaust valve in the combustion chamber some! I smoothed my exhaust ports till they were glassy smooth to try and keep the velocity up as well. .
Yeah, I did end up taking more out of the guides than I had originally intended, but I really don't think it will effect me too much in my application, with possibly the exeption on heat transfer. Since the guides also draw heat away from the valves, and since propane burns a lot hotter than gasoline, there is a potential for some valve durability issues, but I should be able to nix that with by choice of material the valves are made of. All in all, I really only removed about a 1/4"-3/8" of guide length, it shouldn't be a problem.

I was given this porting set up as part of my tuition when I went to S.A.M., I'm still using the carbide bits that came with the kit, and some paper rolls to polish everything. I plan on getting some new ones before I'm done here, I'll let you know where I end up getting them from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibnzmonkey View Post
Mother of non existant valve guides... Someone went way too crazy into the "porting".
We'll see how it works out, if not, I'll have a good excuse to pick up an aluminum head from Hesco.
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #14
DezertXj88
Senior Member
1990 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: somewhere in the dust, Ca
Posts: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockRodHooligan View Post
Yeah, I did end up taking more out of the guides than I had originally intended, but I really don't think it will effect me too much in my application, with possibly the exeption on heat transfer. Since the guides also draw heat away from the valves, and since propane burns a lot hotter than gasoline, there is a potential for some valve durability issues, but I should be able to nix that with by choice of material the valves are made of. All in all, I really only removed about a 1/4"-3/8" of guide length, it shouldn't be a problem.

I was given this porting set up as part of my tuition when I went to S.A.M., I'm still using the carbide bits that came with the kit, and some paper rolls to polish everything. I plan on getting some new ones before I'm done here, I'll let you know where I end up getting them from.



We'll see how it works out, if not, I'll have a good excuse to pick up an aluminum head from Hesco.

Also let me know on your old carbide bits..may still get some use out of them..

And the guides looks ok, a little thinner than what most do, but I've seen them ground down before! I like to leave a little bit more cause when you go in with the rolls to smooth it out, it'll take even more away..
You should look into getting ls1 valves/springs and retainers! Then yellow Z06 springs can support any aftermarket cam thats out for the jeep..and the valves are all undercut/swirl polished. And tulipded undersides which will let you get your quench tighter!

I'm using the stuff from 317 heads or the LQ4 valve train which is the same as a ls1. And since I'm running a stock cam, I'm using the stock ls1 springs, they are good for like .540" of lift @ 7000rpm, the Z06 yellow springs are good for .575" at like 7500rpm..since we aren't running that high, they will support just about any cam we throw at them.
My quench height is .038 pistons are above the deck .005-.006

The ls1 intakes are like 2.00" and the exhaust are 1.55"..I think I'll probably run my stock exhaust valves, just because I have a Renix head which flows worse, and cause I'm running a 4.2L mini stroker, not a actual stroker. So if you need exhaust valves, I'll have a set of 8 for ya if I don't use them.
But anyway, the valves are quiet a bit stronger and bigger and lighter lol..valve stems are like .341" so you can ream your guides..and then they'll be like new, no slope, vs using stock size stems which maybe result in some side-side play... The ls1s are bigger, tuliped and all the goodies, but still weigh less than stock 4.0 valves which is a huge benefit!
You can also run SBC stuff, but when sourcing it, I found it to be more expensive..like $160 for sbc valves, 1.94/1.50..and I still would need springs retainers ect.
The ls1 stuff is just stock take offs that people are selling for pennies..I payed like 42 bucks for 16 valves/springs/retainers and locks. Ls1tech is where I got mine, may check it out and look for some stuff.
DezertXj88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-28-2012, 10:09 PM   #15
RockRodHooligan
Registered User
1996 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Noblesville, Indiana
Posts: 5,247
I actually had the LS valves in mind. I know at on point the LS1/LS6 were using sodium filled valves to reduce the heat drawn into the valves. Not sure If I'll do intake only or intake and exhaust. I'll actually be going over everything Thurs with my instructor so he can take my block back to his shop and do all of the machining next week while we are on spring break, I'll have to go over using the LS1/LS6 stuff with him.
__________________
89 MJ:Project: Ground up
96 XJ:Parking lot Pre-Runner


Project: Silverback Ash to ash, dust to dust... Skin to bone, steel to rust... You will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Penis inches...
Good god man. Indyorv :rofl: d**k and fart jokes. :rofl:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_craig View Post
Cleanly done bob jobs are so cool.
RockRodHooligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.