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Unread 12-21-2011, 08:14 PM   #91
jermeyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaggedOleMan View Post
[IMG]

Jermeyg, these have been slightly revised, based in part on your discovery's. If they're not solid enough, tell me exactly where they seem incorrect and I'll confirm them, and/or what else you need so I can get them.
Hey Ragged, I think your numbers are pretty good. There is a small inaccuracy with the lower control arm length but I am not sure that matters too much. I think you can use the numbers I put up last as inputs for the 4link calculator but as others mentioned the horizontal separation at the axle mounts and frame mounts is not measured out just yet.

Its also important to note that not having the track bar in the 4 link calculator throws off the accuracy. If you need anything else let me know!

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Unread 12-21-2011, 08:17 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by pcoplin View Post
I did the coil spring bucket relocation before the outboard to see if I could tell a difference, and couldn't. Probably helps with spring life, but I didn't feel any difference.


edit: I also believe the outboarding shocks is a very minor change in comparison to changing the link design. I ran my triangulated 4-link for 4 years without outboarding, and besides having more damping, it didn't change handling much. It mainly allowed me to have more shock travel.
Agreed, even with my outboarded shocks and relocated spring perch I can still get a rock hump going In a couple of weeks I would to try and map out my current setup to see how things look. Would be interesting if some would map out some long arm kits: Rough Country, Full Traction, Clayton etc.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:18 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by jermeyg View Post
Agreed, even with my outboarded shocks and relocated spring perch I can still get a rock hump going In a couple of weeks I would to try and map out my current setup to see how things look. Would be interesting if some would map out some long arm kits: Rough Country, Full Traction, Clayton etc.
OB dampers do nothing for the geometry of your links. How did you relocate your rear coils? Any increase in height with stock link mounts will attribute in raising your IC.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:25 PM   #94
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OB dampers do nothing for the geometry of your links. How did you relocate your rear coils? Any increase in height with stock link mounts will attribute in raising your IC.

I'm sure he's just talking about straightening up the upper bucket.

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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:44 PM   #95
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I'm sure he's just talking about straightening up the upper bucket.

We know what it is, it's how you do it that will make a difference.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 08:59 AM   #96
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We know what it is, it's how you do it that will make a difference.
Spring and shock characteristics play a big roll in the wheel hop solution department. Paying attention to wheel rates and motion ratios is a must to have a well behaving suspension, not just anti-squat.
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Unread 12-22-2011, 12:55 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by MayRoll View Post
OB dampers do nothing for the geometry of your links. How did you relocate your rear coils? Any increase in height with stock link mounts will attribute in raising your IC.
MayRoll, i agree that outboard doesn't change your geometry. Well I relocated my coils by first setting my jeep with the coils at ride height and then took some measurement of what my ride height actually is. Then I removed the coil perches and welded them back in straight at ride height.

This means that at full droop you would see some curvature. From my measurements there was no increase in height and level side to side within 1/8"

I used the poly kit to outboard my shocks and set them up so that they were perpendicular to the frame with the shock body centered at ride height. Here are some photos and my poor welding






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Unread 12-22-2011, 05:08 PM   #98
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Okay, I've replotted my existing set up, and hopefully got the drawing to reflect my as-built conditions more closely, thanks to all the input & contributions in this thread . That said, it appears my anti-squat is approx 185% and my anti dive is approx 117%. The thing that troubles me with these numbers is that they're based on an estimated center of gravity.

Do my calculations look correct?

EDIT; I uploaded a blank worksheet so others can print it out & use it to establish their own as-builts.
jeep-suspension-worksheet-jeep-6.jpg   jeep-suspension-blank-worksheet.jpg  
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Unread 12-22-2011, 07:27 PM   #99
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This thread is awesome, I am learning so much.

Has anybody ever tried calculating stock arms (14"-16") into a better configuration with lift? Or are the changes so small its not worth changing
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I see you also twizzled your scart lead. Well done! :thumbsup:
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Unread 12-23-2011, 09:42 AM   #100
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This thread is awesome, I am learning so much.

Has anybody ever tried calculating stock arms (14"-16") into a better configuration with lift? Or are the changes so small its not worth changing
I think you're referring to my setup...
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Unread 12-23-2011, 10:56 AM   #101
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I thought you made mid arms for the front? About what page of your thread?
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Originally Posted by chris87xj View Post
Sometimes a restoration project is a labor of love, at which point cost, time, and labor involved become irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorderC View Post
I see you also twizzled your scart lead. Well done! :thumbsup:
92 XJ with ARB's, 5" lift, too much armor, 33's and some other garbage
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Unread 12-23-2011, 11:30 AM   #102
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Never mind, found it! Page 160 right? Now I'm no suspension pro by any means but by not having your lower arms mounted in a way where they are opposite the uppers via the centerpoint of your axle cause axle wrap?
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Originally Posted by chris87xj View Post
Sometimes a restoration project is a labor of love, at which point cost, time, and labor involved become irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorderC View Post
I see you also twizzled your scart lead. Well done! :thumbsup:
92 XJ with ARB's, 5" lift, too much armor, 33's and some other garbage
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Unread 12-23-2011, 04:31 PM   #103
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Never mind, found it! Page 160 right? Now I'm no suspension pro by any means but by not having your lower arms mounted in a way where they are opposite the uppers via the centerpoint of your axle cause axle wrap?
Uhhhh, no.....

What do you mean? The axle doesn't move at all, as it shouldn't with a proper link setup.
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Unread 12-23-2011, 05:56 PM   #104
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Uhhhh, no.....

What do you mean? The axle doesn't move at all, as it shouldn't with a proper link setup.
Pretty sure he means "twist" not wrap.

The length of the arms and their pivot point relationship causes the axle to either twist or not. You want the front axle to twist as it moves through the arc of the control arms because that maintains a constant caster angle. Or maybe in the rear you don't want a twist so that you maintain a constant pinion angle.
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Unread 12-23-2011, 06:22 PM   #105
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If that's what he means, then that's a great question. While I haven't take pinion angle measurements at full bump, ride height, and full droop, I've watched it as it cycles and it remains fine. No CV bindage at full droop, either.
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