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cw01 07-11-2013 11:01 PM

full hydro steering questions
 
OK I'm in the planning stages with my 76 cj7 running a 350 with a four speed on an unknown type chevy frame. Right now I'm planning on converting my SOA leafs to either a long arm 3,4 or radius setup having a smaller budget and manafcturing most of my own stuff I was wondering how to do full hydro on atleast the front. I know and completely understand how the kits and most homebuilds were done but my question is why can't I use my Saginaw type steering box that controls the hydro assist to just run a slightly larger ram alone? I could add a larger resivor if that is the problem. I've read and typed every tag I can think of in Google to find an answer but nothing talks anything about it.

jason m 07-12-2013 05:53 AM

So the idea is just to use the stock Saginaw steering box as the metering valve correct?
It would work, but not very well as your not going to move enough fluid threw the steering box fast enough to move the tires around like you would if the box was connected to the steering to.

Hydro assist is just that assist, the ram and steering box work together to steer the rig around, full hydro ( of course you know this ) is a stand alone using just fluid to steer.

Just pick up a 4.5cu-5.5cu inch valve from any fork truck, before you buy it run the number and make sure ( which 99% of them are ) its a open center valve or has no 5th port.
This will offer you a cheaper valve and out all the ones I have pulled out they all worked.

Jason.

cw01 07-12-2013 09:57 PM

Ahh Jason! I have read many of your threads I especially liked your rear steer build. Thanks for Your input. So it's a volume issue not able to move the cylinder fast enough, got ya. Thanks. You are saying fork truck, are you referring to a fork lift? I'm from Texas and sometimes we call stuff different things lol. Hopefully I'm just not overlooking the obvious.. you said open center as to what a lot of people mistakenly call orbital valves that RuN continuous fluid pressure instead if intermittent correct? So it can run from my p pump. The reference above to the fifth port would be where I could make mine a rear steer correct? Can I nit plug that port until ready to upgrade for that build if I decide to later?

jason m 07-12-2013 10:59 PM

Fork truck or a ware house lift truck is what I mean as to what to look for a donor rig to take a valve from.
Yes a open center valve will allow a P style pump pass fluid it threw when not steering the wheel, a closed center will use a different style pump with a built in bypass in the pump not in the valve.
So if the fluid cant pass threw the valve ( closed center ) it will dead head the P pump and stall it or force it to run on a relief which is very bad for that type of pump.

I say to avoid the 5th port because all the 5th port style pumps I have run across are all closed center valve's. Do they make a open center one, not sure so normally I steer ( no pun intended ) away from them.

I used a 4 port 4.5cu valve and a P style pump from a 81 Chevy, works perfect even with the rear steer.
I ran my high pressure line from my pump threw my rear steer valve first, then out of the return from that valve it go's into the feed for the front valve.
Now power of least resistance comes into play running it all off of one pump or one system. What I mean buy that is, if I turn the front and the rear at the same time which one moves first??? The one with least force holding it back, that's the thought anyways.
I have only ran across a few time's when I need them both to steer and the front moved and not the rear. It was under a hard turn and that's when that thought of fluid will move the easiest thing first.

Sorry got a little side tracked, look for a valve and don't try to make a steering box work you will be let down.

Jason.

cw01 07-12-2013 10:59 PM

Since I've have read a lot of your stuff Jason I've definitely developed respect for your work and therefore your opinions matter. The setup I have on the cj7 are leafs front and back. Its spring over with spring outside frame rail n front but underneath in back. The PO said he got massive amounts of flex and even has chains welded to the frame to axle to prevent too much flex. I want a medium level Crawler based in the fact that I don't have the desire to put myself in some of the situations I've seen some guys in. I've been injured numerous times having "fun" and enough is enough lol. So basically what I'm asking is is it worth all the work and down time to build my long arms and full hydro if I'm not gonna take it to the absolute limits. Believe me I'm hardcore, doing things with my rigs most around me would never try ( that's why they call me Mikey at the boggs lol) but I really have to stop being stupid . I apologize for being off topic but I have no idea how to contact you any other way again because I'm new to the site. I want about 36 to 40 inches of flex. Can I get that from SOA. Btw just to get back on topic I do have hydro assist now just wondered about a redneck fix if and when I went to long arm links. lol. Limited budget and all.

jason m 07-12-2013 11:11 PM

You really cant derail your own thread, lol.

I have backed off threw the years, I have a house, work for my self and have kids that need there dad around so over the years I have taken the go arounds also.
I run with a very built crowd and they are not in jeeps anymore, they are all built buggy's with red lable's and rear steer. With that said I still try the hard lines, but I know when to say ok i'm backing off, I just cant follow them and it does not bother me one bit.

I am at the very beginning steps of a single seat rear engine buggy build, that will take a few years to complete, I have other things in life taken my time but still love to build, that's half the fun. I think once that's complete I will feel a lot safer in buggy that in my Jeep/buggy.
I understand how you feel about not wanting to push it and I think anyone who feels the need to say your chicken on the trail is some one you don't need to be around with in the first place.

No shame in taken the go around, just have fun.

Jason.

cw01 07-12-2013 11:23 PM

Thanks a ton. I've been around and tinkering with jeeps more than half my life and have just started this next level builds. My cj5 I got when I was 16 and I don't want much more than minor lift just because of the feelings towards it but the 7 I've already started cutting up for clearance. Just want a VERY capable rig to go n the Oklahoma mountains. There are top rated trails in clayton. But there are also slightly lower all the way down to flat trails. Anyway thanks for the advice and b careful out there.


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