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Unread 05-05-2013, 07:46 AM   #1
Necromancer_tat
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Educate me about rear steer please?

I currently have a 14 bolt rear axle with disk brakes. I plan on shaving it and making it into a 13 bolt in the near future. I'm also considering adding rear steer to my rig to regain some turning radius so I don't have to do 10 point turns so often. I'm already full hydro in the front, so would I need a larger pump to run rear steer, a second pump etc? As far as steering knuckles and brakes are concerned, is it as simple as cutting off the existing spindles and welding inner "C"s to the axle tubes, and then running Dana 60 outers with a hydro steer set up, or am I over looking something? Does caster and camber come into play on a rear steer axle and if so how much? What about Ackerman angles etc?

Thanks in advance!

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Unread 05-05-2013, 01:10 PM   #2
MO2500
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While rear steer is interesting, why not improve your steering radius in other ways? It may steer a heck of a lot better if you swap to selectable lockers. There is also the option of machining the shafts in the front for up to 50* of steering angle (if you can utilize that much and still clear the LCAs and grille).

Also, look into the TMR 15 bolt kits for the shave. Seems to me they would be a lot easier to get sealed. That's the way I'd go if I were shaving a 14 bolt.
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Unread 05-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MO2500 View Post
While rear steer is interesting, why not improve your steering radius in other ways? It may steer a heck of a lot better if you swap to selectable lockers. There is also the option of machining the shafts in the front for up to 50* of steering angle (if you can utilize that much and still clear the LCAs and grille).

Also, look into the TMR 15 bolt kits for the shave. Seems to me they would be a lot easier to get sealed. That's the way I'd go if I were shaving a 14 bolt.
That 15 bolt kit is pretty nice, thanks for the heads up about it!
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Unread 05-05-2013, 02:27 PM   #4
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Whats the budget? I had a 14 bolt and wanted rear steer, but cost wise it was cheaper to run a Chevy 60 in favor of the 14 bolt converted to a steering axle.

60 front vs the 14 bolt,

Pro: The 60 all ready has the inner axle seals, C's, knuckles, shafts and just about all the turning radius from a factory package.

Cons: The 60 is going to offset ( Chevy driver side Ford pass side ), your giving up some strength in the R&P and in the smaller pinion and you need to source or find another axle.

Pro: 14 bolt, super strong gears and pinoin, you all ready own it and a bomb proof center sectoin.

Cons: no inner axle seal step, custom 30 spline shafts insteed of easy to find 35 spline shafts, no OD of tube will fit the ID of the C and there is enough tube for a fullwidth axle but it gets real close on the end before it tapers down.

If your on a buget like most are your not going to beat a Chevy or Dodge 60 front as a rear axle. Thats what I did, installed a set of 35 spline stubs, some drive flanges, 1/2 ton disc brakes and some 5.38 gears on a welded carrier.
Perfect for me, but as much as it makes trying something new it also gets me into more trouble.

I have plenty of insight into building rear steer axle's, as I played with many different styles, like the Eaton and dana 80. But in the end for a trail rig you can't beat a front 60.

Jason.
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Unread 05-05-2013, 02:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
Whats the budget? I had a 14 bolt and wanted rear steer, but cost wise it was cheaper to run a Chevy 60 in favor of the 14 bolt converted to a steering axle.

60 front vs the 14 bolt,

Pro: The 60 all ready has the inner axle seals, C's, knuckles, shafts and just about all the turning radius from a factory package.

Cons: The 60 is going to offset ( Chevy driver side Ford pass side ), your giving up some strength in the R&P and in the smaller pinion and you need to source or find another axle.

Pro: 14 bolt, super strong gears and pinoin, you all ready own it and a bomb proof center sectoin.

Cons: no inner axle seal step, custom 30 spline shafts insteed of easy to find 35 spline shafts, no OD of tube will fit the ID of the C and there is enough tube for a fullwidth axle but it gets real close on the end before it tapers down.

If your on a buget like most are your not going to beat a Chevy or Dodge 60 front as a rear axle. Thats what I did, installed a set of 35 spline stubs, some drive flanges, 1/2 ton disc brakes and some 5.38 gears on a welded carrier.
Perfect for me, but as much as it makes trying something new it also gets me into more trouble.

I have plenty of insight into building rear steer axle's, as I played with many different styles, like the Eaton and dana 80. But in the end for a trail rig you can't beat a front 60.

Jason.
Thanks Jason! How often do you break something on your flipped 60? What are you using to steer it? A second pump? What kind of selector valve? PSC stuff or did you source your own parts?
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Unread 05-05-2013, 02:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat View Post
Thanks Jason! How often do you break something on your flipped 60? What are you using to steer it? A second pump? What kind of selector valve? PSC stuff or did you source your own parts?
Fliped 60, like I used a front for a rear or flipped like its a going to be upside down? I think I know what your asking but I bring it up casue others will think you need to do something special to the axle like "flip it over", no thats not the case.
Its still a LP axle like your 14 bolt so nothing is done to it other than installing it like it sits or just a normall axle.

Ok now thats thats out of the way, havn't broke other than a bad caliper last year but thats getting taken care of this week. No second pump I run a Chevy P-pump from a 1981 one ton, with a extended filler tube.
For the rear steer valve itself its a log splitter valve without a retrun detent on it, so just a normall push pull valve thats mounted to work side to side.

All my own hydro parts from doner fork trucks and two 2x8 tractor supply rams, the rear is going to get swapped for a 2.5" size ram cause I need more force on the rear, when I have force of the Jeep down on it it can't trun the tires, it gets bound up.
So a bigger ram is needed, but I like it a lot.

Heres my build, http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f369/...steer-1304160/
I don't mind helping in your post but maybe some of what your looking for I covered, well probally most.

Jason.
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Unread 05-05-2013, 04:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason m View Post
Fliped 60, like I used a front for a rear or flipped like its a going to be upside down? I think I know what your asking but I bring it up casue others will think you need to do something special to the axle like "flip it over", no thats not the case.
Its still a LP axle like your 14 bolt so nothing is done to it other than installing it like it sits or just a normall axle.

Ok now thats thats out of the way, havn't broke other than a bad caliper last year but thats getting taken care of this week. No second pump I run a Chevy P-pump from a 1981 one ton, with a extended filler tube.
For the rear steer valve itself its a log splitter valve without a retrun detent on it, so just a normall push pull valve thats mounted to work side to side.

All my own hydro parts from doner fork trucks and two 2x8 tractor supply rams, the rear is going to get swapped for a 2.5" size ram cause I need more force on the rear, when I have force of the Jeep down on it it can't trun the tires, it gets bound up.
So a bigger ram is needed, but I like it a lot.

Heres my build, http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f369/...steer-1304160/
I don't mind helping in your post but maybe some of what your looking for I covered, well probally most.

Jason.
Yeah, I meant flipped front to back, not upside down. The Chevy low pinion would be the better of the tow to source since it would be driving on the drive side of the ring gear correct? I was kinda hoping it would be as simple as cutting the axle tubes on my 14 bolt, having inner C's and knuckles welded to it, then having some axle shafts made to fit. As far as a budget is concerned I'm kinda tapped out right now, so this is just for research purposes at the moment.
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