Axle Welding - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > General Technical Discussions > Advanced Jeep Tech > Axle Welding

WJ Shackle Tabs: Tow-Hook Replacements2014 Spartan Locker Special - While Supplies Last! Dana 3FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye Kit

Reply
Unread 02-03-2013, 11:59 PM   #16
fratis
......
 
fratis's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hale'iwa, Hawai'i
Posts: 4,885
this has little to do with the OPs problem.

__________________
-insert meaningless out-of-place political diatribe-
fratis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2013, 06:04 PM   #17
82JeepCJ7
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4,869
Ummmm...OK.

So I suggest a simple way of keeping the axle housing from rotating, and according to you, this is of no help?

yea.....
__________________
Beat it to fit, paint it to match!

Wheel, Wrench, Repeat.
82JeepCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2013, 06:16 PM   #18
rchase559
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 'Merica
Posts: 2,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7
Ummmm...OK.

So I suggest a simple way of keeping the axle housing from rotating, and according to you, this is of no help?

yea.....
You broke the welds on the spring perches, the OP broke the plug welds on the housing/axle tube. There's a difference...
rchase559 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2013, 06:26 PM   #19
82JeepCJ7
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4,869
The common issue is the rotation of the axle. The torque arm prevents this.

Do I need to make this easier for you guys to understand?
__________________
Beat it to fit, paint it to match!

Wheel, Wrench, Repeat.
82JeepCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2013, 06:49 PM   #20
rchase559
Registered User
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 'Merica
Posts: 2,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7
The common issue is the rotation of the axle. The torque arm prevents this.

Do I need to make this easier for you guys to understand?
An anti wrap bar prevents axle warp of the whole axle, unless it ties into the differential housing it does nothing to prevent the tubes from spinning. If it just buts up against it, welding it to the housing is virtually no different than welding the tubes to the housing.
rchase559 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-04-2013, 07:06 PM   #21
82JeepCJ7
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4,869
So besides nothing, what solutions do you have?
__________________
Beat it to fit, paint it to match!

Wheel, Wrench, Repeat.
82JeepCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-06-2013, 06:53 PM   #22
fratis
......
 
fratis's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hale'iwa, Hawai'i
Posts: 4,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7 View Post
Ummmm...OK.

So I suggest a simple way of keeping the axle housing from rotating, and according to you, this is of no help?

yea.....
it is of no help because in the OPs case the center section has broken free of the axle tubing and rotated. using a traditional anti-wrap device particularly the one you picture will not prevent what the OP is describing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7 View Post
Do I need to make this easier for you guys to understand?
not at all. let me help YOU. in the OP's case the axle tubing has stayed relatively in place. this is the same tubing your anti-wrap bar is attached to and doing a perfect job. only the center cast section of the housing has rotated. if the OP simply broke crappy perch welds he wouldnt have bothered posting the problem. he would have simply had someone who can actually weld redo it for him.
__________________
-insert meaningless out-of-place political diatribe-
fratis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-06-2013, 11:21 PM   #23
82JeepCJ7
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4,869
Again, you offer no answers to help prevent this from happening in the future.

The factory plug welds fail due to one side being able to rotate more than the other. This has been attributed to loose U-bolts, rounded off spring perches, etc. When one side is allowed to rotate, the welds are stressed on that side. Once those are broke free, it does not take much to break loose the other side.
A quick fix as he has done, is to rotate the center section back to where it belongs and weld the tubes to the housing.

This will work until a stronger axle is located and swapped in. I would not run the repaired axle any longer than I had to if it was a daily driver. If its a weekend wheeler, then longer is fine. Just be prepared to do a trail fix if the welds fail (carbon tube to cast welds, unless done properly with the correct rod tend to fail on the housing side.)

On the two I have repaired for others, the weld joint was cleaned, then preheated to 250 on the housing side. E309L rod was used for the weld. One of the axles was done almost 5 years ago, the other just over 2 years ago. Both are holding up fine.
__________________
Beat it to fit, paint it to match!

Wheel, Wrench, Repeat.
82JeepCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2013, 12:15 AM   #24
fratis
......
 
fratis's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hale'iwa, Hawai'i
Posts: 4,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7 View Post
Again, you offer no answers to help prevent this from happening in the future.
all i intended to do was tell you that your "answer" was irrelevant. people have spun center sections with anti-wrap bars. welding the center section to the tubing is S.O.P. and the OP never asked for answers to help prevent it from happening in the future.
__________________
-insert meaningless out-of-place political diatribe-
fratis is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #25
jason m
Moderator
 
jason m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland mass USA
Posts: 2,894
Mine spun because of the anti wrap bar and no weld on the tubes and this was on a 14 bolt. Thats about their only weak point, addres that and its bomb proof.

Jason.
__________________
1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
jason m is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2013, 06:55 AM   #26
JeeperDon
Patience, Grasshopper
 
JeeperDon's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 6,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7 View Post
Again, you offer no answers to help prevent this from happening in the future.

The factory plug welds fail due to one side being able to rotate more than the other. This has been attributed to loose U-bolts, rounded off spring perches, etc. When one side is allowed to rotate, the welds are stressed on that side.
This is BS. Your answer implies that if the perches are sound, all will be fine. Nope. The reason the welds fail is because the plug welds on the axle by the OEM were not designed for the forces of swapping in 4.88 gears, maybe doing SOA, and having 35"+ tires. Over do it and crap happens. You also offer no answer to help this from happening again for the OP. Welding the tubes is the only way to help.
__________________
'93 YJ, '02 GM 4.3 Vortec V6, SOA, dual ARB's, 8.8+D30(w/WarnHubs), 4.88 gears, 35" BFG KM2's, AX15, 15x7 wheels, NP231+4:1+SYE+2LO, York OBA, Warn M8000, no top or doors Apr-Oct.
Member and Web guy: New Mexico 4 Wheelers My Truck Page on NM4W Site
JeeperDon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2013, 06:04 PM   #27
82JeepCJ7
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4,869
Don, I suggest you re read my posts....
__________________
Beat it to fit, paint it to match!

Wheel, Wrench, Repeat.
82JeepCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-08-2013, 06:35 PM   #28
JeeperDon
Patience, Grasshopper
 
JeeperDon's Avatar
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 6,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82JeepCJ7 View Post
Don, I suggest you re read my posts....
Yeah, I did before I replied, which is why I replied. Even your own posts are conflicting. They all don't take into account the root of the forces, which is the case nose on its own trying to rise due to the pinion crawling up the fixed ring (fixed by the tire traction and axle shafts). I agree that evenly applied forces by both tubes and springs to restrict the case movement will help in a plug weld only axle. However your added traction bar resists the case movement by holding one tube, which can easily make plug welds fail.

We only disagree in how the plug welds may fail, both know that they will. We agree that more welding of case to tubes, with a better axle match the tire size and power, will eliminate problems. My 'just mig welded, no preheat' axle has been fine for 10 years, though I later learned preheat is the correct method. I still check the side with the traction bar whenever I crawl under there for something.
__________________
'93 YJ, '02 GM 4.3 Vortec V6, SOA, dual ARB's, 8.8+D30(w/WarnHubs), 4.88 gears, 35" BFG KM2's, AX15, 15x7 wheels, NP231+4:1+SYE+2LO, York OBA, Warn M8000, no top or doors Apr-Oct.
Member and Web guy: New Mexico 4 Wheelers My Truck Page on NM4W Site
JeeperDon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-09-2013, 07:53 AM   #29
82JeepCJ7
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 4,869
In the two axles I have fixed, they had two things in common. The U-bolts had loosened up and caused the spring perch to rock on the spring. The continual rocking caused the stock, weak spring perch to round off. I noticed when I removed said axle from the vehicle, that one side was drastically rounded off (had been loose longer.) This would apply more rotational force to that side of the axle, stressing the plug welds on that side. Once those failed, the other side followed.
__________________
Beat it to fit, paint it to match!

Wheel, Wrench, Repeat.
82JeepCJ7 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 02-17-2013, 11:09 AM   #30
ramjett
Registered User
1970 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: montrose, colorado
Posts: 56
Ford 9 inch and get a custom driveshaft . No more breaks.
ramjett is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.