2.5/2.8 VM diesel - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 37 Old 11-14-2012, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
Motas
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2.5/2.8 VM diesel

Hi all. Does anyone have any thoughts on a diesel swap into a tj? Thinking of putting a 2.5 out of an xj or a 2.8 out of a kk (I think) into a tj. Over here in aus the xjs were sold with one before anyone points it out so I can get one of them for less than $3k. The newer motors are a bit more expensive but still an option.
The 2.5 should bolt straight to my gearbox (ax15 I think), motor mounting is easy enough with a bit of fab, wiring will not be done by me. I need a new exhaust anyway. Air intake shouldn't be too hard since I need to make a snorkel as well.
Are there any problems I haven't though of with this? Main aim is to get uniqueness, fuel range and torque as well as hopefully a bit more power with a bigger turbo to help on the road.
Thanks.


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post #2 of 37 Old 11-14-2012, 05:07 AM
ratmonkey
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The Europeans have nothing good to say about the 2.5l
The newer engines seem OK though.

'97 zj 5.2, some stuff, some other suff, and some things that even work sometimes.

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post #3 of 37 Old 11-14-2012, 05:23 AM Thread Starter
Motas
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I'm having a bit of trouble finding information on the engines in Jeeps. They are common here but because most of the Jeep sites are American it is hard to find info.
What are the issues with the 2.5L? I know power is about the same as the 4.0 but the economy should be better and from memory the torque is slightly higher at a lower RPM. The 2.8L would be better but is harder to find and more expensive. Are there any other options I should be looking into? Chevrolet and Ford are small here so a 4BT is not an option.

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post #4 of 37 Old 11-14-2012, 07:04 AM
ratmonkey
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They say power is terrible, economy sucks, and they eat head gaskets every few months.

'97 zj 5.2, some stuff, some other suff, and some things that even work sometimes.

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post #5 of 37 Old 11-14-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motas View Post
I'm having a bit of trouble finding information on the engines in Jeeps. They are common here but because most of the Jeep sites are American it is hard to find info.
What are the issues with the 2.5L? I know power is about the same as the 4.0 but the economy should be better and from memory the torque is slightly higher at a lower RPM. The 2.8L would be better but is harder to find and more expensive. Are there any other options I should be looking into? Chevrolet and Ford are small here so a 4BT is not an option.
The 4BT shouldn't be an option anyway...it's WAY heavy and completely screws up your handling. I've heard bad stuff about the 2.5's as well but I'm not sure where else to point you without knowing what all you have available. I've seen some 1.9 VW swaps that have worked pretty easily, but you're not going to get a ton of power out of them...so you may be in uncharted territory, here.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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post #6 of 37 Old 11-15-2012, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
Motas
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Whats the VW out of? We have a reasonable amount of them.
Mostly have Nissan patrols and Toyota land cruisers for 4wds. Guess theyre kinda like ford and chev over there. Also have a lot of jap cars and a fair few European cars. Not much in the way of American cars though.
Looks to me like the best option would be the 2.8 since it should bolt to the trans easily and I know it fits. Also means I keep it a true jeep and shouldn't have trouble finding parts or anything. And can hopefully find one in a wrecked jk or Cherokee.
For anyone interested the military jeep t1 came with a vm diesel engine in it. Basically what I would like to build.
Thanks.

http://cj10camper.blogspot.com.au/
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post #7 of 37 Old 11-15-2012, 09:03 AM
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Whats the VW out of? We have a reasonable amount of them.
Here's one that came from a 98 Jetta. I know they come in the newer stuff as well. I'm not sure what emission laws you have there, but you should be able to find something that'll work...

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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post #8 of 37 Old 11-15-2012, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
Motas
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If we use a newer motor with a stock exhaust to the cat and stock ecu from the donor vehicle then it automatically passes. If I do not do this I have to get an expensive emissions test and it has to pass the requirements as of 1998. So basically if its more efficient it'll pass since jeeps passed in 98.
Should be able to find a Jetta, just whether I can get one cheap or not.
Thank you.

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post #9 of 37 Old 11-16-2012, 08:21 PM
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Have you poked around on dieselbombers or 4btswaps? Between those two and here I remember seeing talk of a TDI wrangler. I think a shop in Vancouver BC was doing it. I know the 2.8L Motori Liberty's get better gas milage than a 4.0 Wrangler, and have significantly more power than the TDI. If cost is the same, the 2.8 seems like a no brainer.
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post #10 of 37 Old 11-16-2012, 08:29 PM
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Yup, just google TDI wrangler, it's been discussed everywhere. HPA Motorsport is the company I was thinking of. If the 2.8 will bolt right up though, it looks like the way to go from a price point. My apologies for not googleing before I made the first post.
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post #11 of 37 Old 11-16-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wellvrsd
Yup, just google TDI wrangler, it's been discussed everywhere. HPA Motorsport is the company I was thinking of. If the 2.8 will bolt right up though, it looks like the way to go from a price point. My apologies for not googleing before I made the first post.
The 2.8 CRD is a nightmare to swap in, even though it's a FAR better choice than the 4BT. Read up on what it takes.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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post #12 of 37 Old 11-16-2012, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Alright did some more reading. To keep the Liberty computer FAR too much has to be swapped to Liberty gear including trans, dash, steering column and possibly axles (to JK). That rules out the use of the computer. Can an aftermarket computer run the diesel? I know petrol motors can be run by a Motech or Haltech but haven't seen any diesels though I haven't looked. This would give me the option of making the whole car much simpler and hopefully more easily fixed. A stand alone computer to run the motor and everything else basic and separate so even if everything goes south I can still get home.
Or are there any other engines (or engines and gearboxes) that can be bolted or adapted without fabrication to the Jeeps drivetrain? Don't want to deal with custom bell housings or alike and I guess there can't be many engines which will fit and be available in Australia which would narrow it down a lot.
Thanks.

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post #13 of 37 Old 11-17-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motas View Post
Alright did some more reading. To keep the Liberty computer FAR too much has to be swapped to Liberty gear including trans, dash, steering column and possibly axles (to JK). That rules out the use of the computer. Can an aftermarket computer run the diesel? I know petrol motors can be run by a Motech or Haltech but haven't seen any diesels though I haven't looked. This would give me the option of making the whole car much simpler and hopefully more easily fixed. A stand alone computer to run the motor and everything else basic and separate so even if everything goes south I can still get home.
Or are there any other engines (or engines and gearboxes) that can be bolted or adapted without fabrication to the Jeeps drivetrain? Don't want to deal with custom bell housings or alike and I guess there can't be many engines which will fit and be available in Australia which would narrow it down a lot.
Thanks.
I'm honestly not sure what you guys have available down there, but in my opinion you're now seeing the main issue that you're going to have with a diesel, aside from getting one to happily putter along under the TJ's hood; fitment with the rest of the drivetrain. Bellhousings and adapters may not be as available in your end of the world as they are here, but if you can find an engine/tranny/t-case combination that works that's already in another vehicle you may very well be able to shoehorn it into your TJ with much less effort. Usually, custom fitments are only a matter of mounts, wiring, shifters and clearance...and all of that stuff can be done by Joe Average Mechanic, given an FSM or two and some patience.

If I was you, I'd look hard into the TDI swap...that's a lower-cost option and it will provide you with adequate power; pretty decent power if you tune it. In case you haven't read this, give it a look-see.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

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The build, the gear, and the mileage: The Wasteland Survival Guide
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post #14 of 37 Old 11-19-2012, 06:39 AM
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Your right about the Cummins B3.9 being to large and heavy. I use them in my Classic Dodges with great success. But I opted to go with a Cummins B3.3 in my CJ7 I am now building. In my opinion its a perfect size and weight for a Jeep. Its easy to adapt/couple to jeep transmissions with adapters from Phoenix Castings and Advanved Adapters. Here is a link to pictures of my CJ7/Cummins B3.3 build.

http://imageevent.com/moosecreekmaple/cj7

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post #15 of 37 Old 11-19-2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 8valve
Your right about the Cummins B3.9 being to large and heavy. I use them in my Classic Dodges with great success. But I opted to go with a Cummins B3.3 in my CJ7 I am now building. In my opinion its a perfect size and weight for a Jeep. Its easy to adapt/couple to jeep transmissions with adapters from Phoenix Castings and Advanved Adapters. Here is a link to pictures of my CJ7/Cummins B3.3 build.

http://imageevent.com/moosecreekmaple/cj7

8Valve
The turbo 3.3 would be a better option, yes... if he can get it street-legal.

If it's worth doing, then it's worth overdoing.

The Republic of Dave: Bringing you the finest in simian testing supplies.

The build, the gear, and the mileage: The Wasteland Survival Guide
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