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Unread 04-05-2012, 09:43 PM   #1
mike_breaker_5
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1978 ford hp D60. what front lockout hubs to get?

OK so from the reading I've done i surmise that warn hubs are the strongest. what i do not know is where i need to start looking for exactly which part number i need. can i cross reference the bom number somehow? i am totally going into this axle build blind trusting in a friend of my brother to make sure i do the work right. however when it comes to ordering parts it's all on me, and frankly i want to be sure i'm looking in the right places.

also ...
does anyone know anyplace that can extend the splines on my existing axle shafts to be cut down or sells shafts with extra long splines to enable trimming? possibly even custom length shafts?

anyone have a reverse cut d60 4.88 r&p? lol

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Unread 04-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #2
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Spicer's are the strongest, much stronger than the Warns. They also can be broached to 35 spline and some are even saying theres enough meat to take them to 40 spline.

If the axle has the stock shafts then they can't be re-splined, the 78-79 Ford use the neck down shafts. Plus a front shaft has a seal surface step machined in them right after the spline stops, so even if you had NON neck down shafts you still could not extend the spline section.

After re-reading what your asking, yes you can have NON neck down shafts "cut" and resplined, but no you can't extend the spline or do the cut and repline on neck down shafts, witch every factory Ford front had in that year.

Jason.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 04:54 AM   #3
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looks like i have more reading to do.

do you have any websites that does custom shaft length? i have found a couple with good ole google but there's always that one that is way cheaper than everyone else. i think lowest i found was $119 per side before shipping. i won't know if i'm cutting both sides down until i get the thing tore apart and measured up with the jeep and axle in the same building. as i said my yoda is a veteran of the old school 4x4 world. he knows his way around a d60, he has 3 sammi's all with a set of 60's cut and stuffed under them.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 06:09 AM   #4
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Whats the end goal for a WMS ( wheel mounting surface ), how narrrow do you want the front to be? I narrowed one 78 Ford front and to me it was not worth the effort for a front axle. Now your talking about doing bolth side's.


That axle was going to be a rear steer for a friends buggy, notice how close to the center the center section gets, so one side may not be enough. Hard to tell in that Pic but right after the pass side pearch its cut, I didn't have the C on yet.
So given the fact that all 78/79 Fords use neck down shafts you will first need to get new shafts or just have customs made from the start.

Now a newer 85 up Ford axle you can get away with narrowing just one side, plus there better axle's to start with ( if your going to narrow ) because they use the NON neck down shafts.
You can take that one side shaft and just have it cut and re-broached and a new seal step made.


That axle ( its for sale ) has been cut down to 64.5"s and I used it for years with a cut and respined shaft, never broke that inner just a few outers.

Moser would probally be the cheapest if you had to ship one. Me I use a a local guy but really I just nock the C's off, re-weld them back on and then let the owner of the axle get the custom shafts.

Are you going with a 60 rear? I would sugest dumping that idea and picking up a 14 bolt. Cheaper, stronger and no expensive shafts to handle some 39" plus tire's. Lots of other benifits also over the 60.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 04-07-2012, 04:53 AM   #5
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not sure yet what i'm looking for width. he may only narrow one side.

my job in this part of the build is to learn and source parts. the guru that i am taking the axles to will be doing all the figuring and fab work. i will basically be a pair of hands when the axles are getting done.

yes i will be going with what appears to be a cucv d60 for the rear. there's no bom on it and with hmmwv rim backspacing i am within 1/2" of stock width. i got the pair in trade for a built chevy small block that i had in a hot rod years ago.

i appreciate the advice on axles but i will never break what i have with the type of wheeling i do, well i hope. light trail rides, hill climbs, and mud is all i ever get into no crawling. i had intentions of just a hp44 for the front and 8.8 rear but the opportunity arose with these d60's and i took it.

i am mainly looking to get parts info from this thread for the axles i have. the rear is pretty set all i will need is brakes and drums from napa. the front i am concerned on ordering the wrong thing when it comes to hubs, high steer arms to clear hmmwv rims, r&p, custom shafts, that sort of thing. i have never worked on axles before.
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Unread 04-07-2012, 05:23 AM   #6
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[QUOTE=mike_breaker_5;13371944]

yes i will be going with what appears to be a cucv d60 for the rear.

QUOTE]

If the rear is from a CUCV then its a 14 bolt not a dana 60. The gearing is 4.56's and has a Detroit locker in it. Thats going to huge when ordering brake's. As long as what you said is true, the rear is from CUCV then its a 14 bolt.

Do you have the front axle yet? Is it missing the front hubs? If it is I sevral sets of the warn hubs, I could sell ya, cheap.
Are you going with H-1's or H-2's? H-1's will need the High steer arms that are bent in an inch, H-2's just order anything off the shelf as thay all will clear and work.
If the axle's are a not a matched set from the CUCV ( witch it sounds like you ended up with a 78/79 front and a CUCV 14 bolt rear ) then the front will need a re-gear as Ford never used a 4.56 gear ratio that year or from the factory.

Again the best axle for a Jeep to narrow is the newer style 85 up Ford. Two resions, 1 they only need one side done, 2 they have factory NON neck down shafts.
78/79 Fords need bolth side's done, well I guess it really depends on how much your narrowing it, and agian they have "factory" neck down shafts. Not saying someone else put a newer set of shafts in there or after market one's i just know they never had the NON neck downs.

Post some Pics of what you have it will clear up a few questions I have. Ive been tearing into axle's for the last 20 years and seen hundreds ( maybe thousands ) of axle's.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

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Unread 04-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #7
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here's a few pics.








i am pretty sure the rear has 4.88's in it but that's just a turn the drum and count the pinion revs. it is closer to 5 turns than 4.5 but that's not an exact science. i am not sure it's from a cucv but i assumed that just due to the lack of a BOM on the diff.

the front i am fairly sure is a 4.10/4.11 from a 78 snow king or whatever the truck was called. the front has just drive flanges, no hubs. i want to weld/spool the front and run the lockouts for a poor mans locker. i am using H1 wheels, should be ordering them within the week, i already have my 37x12.5x16.5 HMMWV tires sitting in the shop. i definitely would be interested in a set of hubs for the front.
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it's not much to look at... but it's mine.
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/m...r-junk-990191/
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Unread 04-07-2012, 03:00 PM   #8
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i have had the axles since early july last year. i wasn't ready for them yet at that time but i couldn't pass up the deal on them. it was a straight trade for a lightly used chevy small block i build years ago for a hot rod. they are the next and final large upgrade to my rig and i need to get some learning in before i get them under the jeep.

i appreciate your input very much. hopefully i can start tearing them apart next week and i invite you to follow on my build thread for further help with coming questions i surely will have.
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Unread 04-07-2012, 03:03 PM   #9
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Yep that rear was not in a CUCV. Judgeing buy the type of drive hub flange on the rear 60 it looks to me like its from a Dodge. They had a step in the hub very close to what yours have and yes some Dodge had 4.88's so maybe you found a jem in the ruff.

Your missing the KP caps but thats not a bid deal as high steer arms will go in place of them. As long as the KP cone's are in good shape ( witch 90% of the one's I find are ) then just clean them and your good to go.

As far as the hubs I would just trade ya for the drive flange's. As long as I got all the parts and caps, i'm not joking I have a set but there missing the caps.
I would drop a set of good black label Warns in a flat rate box if you do the same.

Pm for more address.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 04-12-2012, 05:42 PM   #10
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ok first parts problem has arisen.

i have no idea where to start looking for rear brake parts, drums, pads, and the rest of the brake parts in there. would you be able to point me in the direction of what vehicle i should be looking for that had that rear axle under it? i'm trying to reference the casting number on the diff that's in the one pic.
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it's not much to look at... but it's mine.
5.2lswap, metalcloaks, bedliner, tucked belly, d60's, soon to be nv4500 and d300.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/m...r-junk-990191/
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Unread 04-12-2012, 05:48 PM   #11
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i found one place that's saying 1978 dodge powerwagon. i would like to order the parts from napa but can't unless i know what i'm ordering. lol
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it's not much to look at... but it's mine.
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Unread 04-12-2012, 06:20 PM   #12
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Hmm, the smaller drum brake's and 4.88 gears point to a early to mid 70's axle, so maybe a 76 power wagon. We know a few things, its deff a Dodge based on the hubs and you saying it has 4.88's.
Smaller brake drums and all Dodge use the strap style yoke not the U joint style bolts.

This is me saying this and you do what you want but a simple weld on brake caliper for disc brakes might be easyer and a little cheaper.
Yes you would pay for a core charge for the calipers but still the loaded calipers and rotors will be in the 125-150 range if that.
Then factor in the brake brackets and I bet you can wrap it all up for around 200ish.
Yes its a little pricey now but it will be cheaper in the long run.

Jason.
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1993 YJ 4.0 60 Front, Rear steer 60, bolth spooled, 5.38's, 700r/241 39.5 iroks and beating it like it owes me money.

And on the 8th day, God created the 14 bolt....
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Unread 04-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #13
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When i said it was possibly from a dodge military truck, those weren't the cucv's. :-)
Dodge also provided trucks based upon the power wagon in 3/4 & 1 ton format.

For a weld on disc, he needs e-brakes at the wheels, so the cheap Chevy calipers are out. You're looking at close to 300 for the el dorado calipers then.

There's no bom on the tubes at all? That axle wasn't that rusty.
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Unread 04-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #14
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paul and i both looked for a bom on the tubes, today we got a plan of attack and did some measuring to see where we sit. this weekend will start the actual teardown of the rear. maybe there are part numbers on the drum somewhere.

maybe i'll pm jlitty and see if knows exactly where that axle came from. i'd really like to stay as cheap as i can for the time and do a disk upgrade lar. $1400 to get these axles under there. with a front regear, 2 new driveshafts, 4 hmmw rims, new front brakes, high steer setup, perches, u bolts, new shocks and tabs, and anything i forgot in there i will most likely be over budget as it is.

i know disks in the rear is better but i just can't afford it right now. i do appreciate the info on the swap but i just don't think it will be in the cards for now. i would really like to just bolt on the stock brake setup.
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it's not much to look at... but it's mine.
5.2lswap, metalcloaks, bedliner, tucked belly, d60's, soon to be nv4500 and d300.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/m...r-junk-990191/
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Unread 04-12-2012, 07:20 PM   #15
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if the price of stock parts is close to the disk conversion i may do it but the price would have to be pretty close.

i have been cruising pirate but the bible only has front axle id's on it.

i'm also finding a mbl300 1 ton for the mlitary dodge that also seems to have this casting number.

i'm still reading as we speak.

first edit:
seems that most all of the 70's 3/4 and 1 tons all used the same rear brake setup. still reading...

second edit:
i think i may be settled on the brake drums. i won;t make any final decisions until i go look for part numbers on the drums themselves. i'd really like to get inside the drum and look at the hardware and numbers on them. if i can get them all to agree that it's a 70's 3/4 or 1 ton dodge then i'll order them up.
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it's not much to look at... but it's mine.
5.2lswap, metalcloaks, bedliner, tucked belly, d60's, soon to be nv4500 and d300.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/m...r-junk-990191/
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