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Unread 10-17-2011, 06:11 PM   #91
HUBDEEP
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Yes.

As far as fullsize rigs, (non-jeep, truck, etc), it doesn't look too promising. There is about 500 acres in Western Md that we're supposed to have a look at that is old reclaimed mine land. But with a donation by Yamaha, it really looks to be a atv only area.

Mind you now, this is extremely pre-planning phase.

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Unread 10-17-2011, 07:20 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBDEEP View Post
Yes.

As far as fullsize rigs, (non-jeep, truck, etc), it doesn't look too promising. There is about 500 acres in Western Md that we're supposed to have a look at that is old reclaimed mine land. But with a donation by Yamaha, it really looks to be a atv only area.

Mind you now, this is extremely pre-planning phase.
That particular Yamaha site doesn't look promising or none of the sites look promising?

When you say Western MD are we talking way the hell out west like 4 hours from Baltimore and past Green Ridge? If that's the case they may as well open up a park at the North Pole.
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Unread 10-17-2011, 08:47 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Toms87 View Post
That particular Yamaha site doesn't look promising or none of the sites look promising?

When you say Western MD are we talking way the hell out west like 4 hours from Baltimore and past Green Ridge? If that's the case they may as well open up a park at the North Pole.
Seriously. The only time I'd actually to be able to even think about running those trails is if I made a weekend trip out of it and stayed in Deep creek at our condo. And I'd rather not because the Jeep doesn't do well on long trips
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Unread 10-17-2011, 10:14 PM   #94
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Did they ever look into the Gambrills, Cunningham, Frederick Municipal forest land north of frederick. That's an hour from Baltimore and DC. It's hunting part time and some areas are hiking. There is already an illegal trail system up there. Along with illegal ATV and mountain biking trails.
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Unread 10-18-2011, 08:20 PM   #95
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Did they ever look into the Gambrills.... Along with illegal ATV and mountain biking trails.
Hey now. The mountainbiking trails are legal. Don't group them with the illegal ones. And if anyone wants to go I'll take you. The trail will beat you up quick, its real mountainbiking
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Unread 10-18-2011, 08:41 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by HandyAndy516 View Post
Hey now. The mountainbiking trails are legal. Don't group them with the illegal ones. And if anyone wants to go I'll take you. The trail will beat you up quick, its real mountainbiking
Are they any good? Can you PM me with details?
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Unread 11-24-2011, 10:48 AM   #97
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I thought I'd give everyone a quick update on what's going on with the group.

As of right now we are in a bit of 'hibernation' for the winter. With the holidays approaching it is a time for us to regroup and hash out the info we have collected.

I would like to remind everyone that the group is made up of folks from all aspects of the 'outdoor vehicle' world; this includes Horseback folks, Snowmobilers, ATVer's, Mountain Bikers, and the OHV folks. That being said...

We were to have an onsite visit to one of the main areas Maryland is to be considering for purchase/ lease for the OHV community.

After that field meeting was canceled in Garrett County, all has been quiet. To be honest, with the upcoming holidays, that is probably good for all of us.
I would hope something will break loose in January. Besides, then the ground may be frozen and we can safely do some in the field type meetings.

To be honest, I am not too concerned about the quiet period, as much as making sure that when this does start back up, that going forward, there is a true balance of focus, as to where every use within our group is considered and provisions are made for. While some areas will lend themselves better for one use over another. Another group should not rule out a different group from any given site until the site is visited. I believe that each interest would be surprised as to what another can and would like to do.

With that being said, if we find a site that could accommodate yet and another group that is not represented on the work group, such as the horse back folks, we should reach out to them. Coalition building is a very powerful tool. Plus, right now, there are no cross county horse trails on Maryland State managed land. (note I said managed) We all own the land. They manage it. Plus, if we can make good solid friends with Timber and Mining folks, they have a rather powerful lobby, and often, awesome land, much of which already has several trails or routes cut through.

As for the October meeting we were going to have (but was cancelled due to a conflict of interest on that date). Ray Tie (Tri-Star) did the reclamation on the Barton (Garrett County) property we were looking at. These points were to be discussed at that meeting:
  • how much reclamation would be needed to make the area suitable for
    ATV/MC use
  • conversely how much could be eliminated
  • what rules/laws would need to be changed
  • what is the incentive for mine & property owners to cooperate

Ray is aware of most of the mines in the area and the stages of their use/reclamation and can provide a chart for us to look at. He is a native to the area and well aware of abandoned properties and mines that could be linked in a smaller version of Hatfield/McCoy.

Jim Ratino was to discuss user loads and maintenance issues. This is something the group has not discussed but has alluded too. It takes a
lot of property to have a public riding area that is open every weekend
through the spring/summer/fall. Jim was to
  • show the difference between his ATV area and his single track
  • discuss how many users ride each
  • how many trees were removed, etc.

The group was to have a meaningful discussion about user load, trail maintenance, designated riding areas, etc. Jim's property is about 500 acres and it wouldn't take long with unlimited use to destroy the place.

So, we are all waiting until after the new year to pick up where we left off. Hopefully, I can give you guys some better news in January. But we are moving forward and looking to see what we can open. Unfortunately, almost everything is out west. But this is also a 'test' property that we can get on immediately and use it a basis for data collection to see if it can work anywhere else.

Sorry for the long post, but you guys are now all up to speed with us.

Happy Thanksgiving.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 03:23 PM   #98
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sweet thanks for the update. I'd totally be ok with a limited use (maybe a few times a month?) trail system if it meant I didn't have to drive 2 hours to get there
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Unread 11-25-2011, 05:27 PM   #99
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sweet thanks for the update. I'd totally be ok with a limited use (maybe a few times a month?) trail system if it meant I didn't have to drive 2 hours to get there
I think Big Dogs has the right idea, 1 big event every few months. I've only been once but their trails don't look overused at all and the environmental impact looks relatively low to me. There's no yearly membership fee, but a fee for each event. That sounds like it would be the ideal setup for a MD park. They would only have to staff it during events, aside from the regular park rangers patrolling. The logistics of pay-per-ride might be simpler than issuing Assateague-style yearly passes and it would restrict how much heavy use the land sees.

Even the Yamaha place could do that. Allow ATVs all year but host several fullsize events.

Is landowner liability a big concern at this stage of planning?
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Unread 11-25-2011, 06:48 PM   #100
HUBDEEP
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Absolutely. That as well as maximum impact year round for all parties.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 07:26 PM   #101
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Is landowner liability a big concern at this stage of planning?
Liability is always a HUGE concern and it never goes away. It is there in all phases of planning and in a state like Maryland....liability often over runs common sense and freedoms.

I think anything sooner rather than later would be the proper way to go. Not to rest over winter, but keep a full press on getting a legit/legal spot in the State of Maryland. Once a park is running, then the opponents might actually see the positives and then expand the usage and partnerships among the users and providers.
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Unread 11-25-2011, 07:29 PM   #102
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I agree WW. It is one of the main issues at the two areas here on the shore.
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Unread 11-26-2011, 12:35 AM   #103
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I was thinking of something along the lines of any state-sponsored park would be explicitly exempt from liability for injuries. That would be a huge incentive for anyone who has a ton of land but is on the fence about opening it to the public. Ordinary release forms can't cover everything but a legislative exception for recreational OHV areas would go a long way. I feel like this is an obvious point but has the DNR addressed this at all?
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Unread 11-26-2011, 09:00 AM   #104
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Are they any good? Can you PM me with details?
PM sent, you get it?

And for anyone else interested check out www.MORE-mtb.org

Quite the organization for mountain bike advocacy, trail maintenance, and even trail building working with the local governments, which as we can see is not easy. It takes a lot of people, and something a Jeep/OHV organization should model itself after.
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Unread 03-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #105
HUBDEEP
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February Meeting notes

Latest installment:

Area A is seemly on the fast track. Most for Motorcycles, ATVs, but could see some 4x4 use. It can be set up as a multiple use area. The usage would be very controlled. In other words, different types of uses would each have their set weekends. They would feature special events, as well.

Area B has huge potential, but the challenges include private lands, although, it sounds like most land owners will work with us. One of the committee members kept raising environmental concerns. The DNR Committee Leader did speak up for us in this case. Basically, she (environmentalist committee member) can not shoot down every proposal, there has to be some middle ground. This place is located in Garrett County. It is a very large track of land. Suitable for all of us, ATVs, Bikes, 4x4's. Some illegal use continues there although. That created a lot of discussion. This area is far from dead.

We talked about an abandoned mine. The environmentalist had issues with this because of leaching. The DNR committee leader was not interested in this place.

Area C is still in the running. It is in receivership right now with a West Virginia firm. This area, in my opinion, has the absolute most to offer for everyone and would benefit the most inside of and outside of the OHV community. The state is trying to get a hold of this place, nevertheless.

The place near Hancock was nearly dropped, as the DNR committee leader is super concerned about the cliffs. A local committee member is going to speak with the owner about this. One thought is seeing if the Army Corps of Engineers would want to do the work for practice. This area has major potential. The group loved this potential spot. The DNR chair seemed rather lukewarm about it.

On a side note, there is a meeting scheduled with Mike Decklebaum regarding Wills Mountain just north of Cumberland. Not a huge area. The main challenge is the nearby neighborhood.

Funding in general was a major part of the meeting. The group agrees, we will have to think out of the box to move forward and may look a corporate funding opportunities. It was mentioned that working with local merchants near these sites could increase the money flow into the towns and businesses. Also mentioned were the successes thus far with the area in Northumberland County, PA. That place has funding and support coming from all over. A few renegade locals and renegade users has opposed this. Still, the support is very strong.

Recreational Trails Program is not funded, yet, for future projects. Current projects will still be funded. The state seems confident that there will be future funding. That is not what I am hearing, as United FWDA did go on the hill to lobby for funding. We will see.

This is really brief. But, I hope this helps. I did feel more positive leaving this meeting than I did the previous meeting. Still, it is going to be a long haul. We are all learning not to take NO as an answer right out of the gate. The group is forcing the state's hand to explain their decisions or actions.
Everyone agrees, we need to get our folks to sent letters to our elected representatives and the DNR Secretary. We do need to be consistent, though. The State says the Governor is really in our court on this, as he is big on trails development, (of course to increase the gas tax, imo.)

Things are moving forward somewhat. But they are moving.
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clicky-->Maryland Wheeling spots
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