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Unread 06-16-2009, 03:16 PM   #76
adventioneering
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Originally Posted by WJ04 View Post
And if the bog pond isn't that big a deal, just wet and scary, why did you adventioneering say this in your blog about OFR?:

''On the other hand, on the other side of the ridge lies bog. Neither jeep got mud-stuck, though, as we were able to dig down to the rock below. We did not attempt the water feature that we affectionately named ôlake michigan''
Actually that's not entirely accurate, the other guy dipped in. We decided it wasn't efficient to take the *risk* to get through it, as it was nightfall and we'd have to bump the other jeep on street 29s through as well. I have driven through similar features before and I'd be happy to do it for burgers if someone wants to get some fresh air. I'm going back out there anyways. I can send you a picture

PM me if you want to have a discussion on the land-use issues or anything else, I am growing tired of this thread and all the rhetoric faster than I grow tired of winching with a pull-pal. my aim is advaleigh, msn is aleigh@a6v.org, jabber/gmail is aleigh@gmail.com

Hope to see you folks OUTSIDE! INSIDE SCARY!

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Unread 06-16-2009, 04:05 PM   #77
JeeperDon
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Agreed. But that would be a different case.
It's good you have it all figured out, and great that you are equally content to use a winch through a trail or not. I and others here feel differently. I'm going to get a beer, have a good night.
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Unread 06-16-2009, 04:48 PM   #78
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I'm just curious... If you didn't go through the water feature, did you turn around at nightfall and go all the way back, or did you use the illegal go around up through the woods?

Yeah, that's a facetious question, because I know that at nightfall and being efficient and all, you didn't turn around to drag the TJ on 29s through 6 miles of rock.
Apparently, you didn't read through this thread thoroughly, as you would have seen early on, where to go with RE to the water. The state and local land owners don't care WHEN you went where you weren't supposed to be, just that you did. had you been prepared enough to have several sets of HD off road lights, crossing wouldn't have been an issue; or had you not been dragging a TJ on 29s along, the crossing would have been forded with ease.
(actually, the TJ would have been able to make the correct line, with only possible minor water infiltration)

OPINION: A winch is another tool, much like a locker, AAMOF, we often call our winch "the third locker"

However, when I think of getting a vehicle through any trail easily, my mind thinks DRIVE... as do most who will only skim this thread and feel the same way and then attempt to drive OFR, with no winch (and maybe only 30s, cuz "if 31s did it easily, we don't mind having a hard time.."), and of course, due to not thoroughly reading, they will also be unaware of the fact that the go arounds are illegal and will help to get OFR permanently closed.

As for signs...
NEA4WDC and EC4WDA have been doing maintenance on OFR for nearly 20 years. Recently, NEA posted signs all along the road, warning of the illegality of said go arounds. Most if not all of them have been removed by what could be referred to as renegades...
The water: The road pre-dates the water. The water is there due to years of beaver activity. Now that beavers have been out of the area for several years, the water is MUCH lower, BUT, with so much built up silt and vegetative growth, what water IS there has a hard time leaving, keeping a sizable "puddle" over the road.
The reason the state hasn't closed it is because they CAN'T. They tried all sorts of scare tactics over the years, but our research (via real live attorneys and enviro techs (your association dollars at work.. JOIN a CLUB)) showed that the road existed before the water/swamp, that road law will supersede wetlands law ( what happens when I90 gets flooded? They don't close it for good..) and that if the state had a real leg to stand on, they could have easily closed it. The towns (currently) want to keep the road open. The local towns LIKE people going there and spending money camping, buying food, gas, supplies, even souvenirs. HOWEVER.... The local land owners WILL make a stink about THEIR land getting destroyed by wayward/ill prepared vehicles, lead in there by false premise. They make a loud enough noise and OFR goes away.

BTW, my sig no longer contains the 23+ years of national, regional and local land use efforts I have been involved in. Trust me to say that there are few who have the years of involvement, experience and hands on that I do.

Its arguments like this (along with a myriad of other issues) that have lead to my current sig and "retired" status...

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Unread 06-16-2009, 05:11 PM   #79
DoinSumthin
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Im just curious since it is such a major issue with the go arounds, and people getting freaked out about the law and land owners having it shut down. Why not build permanent barriers for those go arounds?? If it means that much to you, then Im sure the effort would be worth it, no? I know there is plenty of trees up there that have fallen from the ice storm that could be put to good use. Hell, Ill even go up there and help build the walls! I live in Adams. Its only a mile up the road from me.
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Unread 06-16-2009, 05:47 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by DoinSumthin View Post
Im just curious since it is such a major issue with the go arounds, and people getting freaked out about the law and land owners having it shut down. Why not build permanent barriers for those go arounds?? If it means that much to you, then Im sure the effort would be worth it, no? I know there is plenty of trees up there that have fallen from the ice storm that could be put to good use. Hell, Ill even go up there and help build the walls! I live in Adams. Its only a mile up the road from me.
Excellent Idea.. and unfortunately, one that has been done before.
If the blockade is not indestructible, it will be pulled down, out of the way etc.
Also unfortunately, OFR runs through the woods. When a strong blockade is built, people simply cut the small trees down or crash through the woods, earlier down the road.

One of the major reasons why we have no public lands here in New England. JQ Wheelers have no respect for property lines, rules, etc.
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Unread 06-16-2009, 09:04 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ToxicTurtle View Post
JQ Wheelers have no respect for property lines, rules, etc.
Agreed, and unfortunately if a trail is "legal" it's going to be abused by those people. It's sad, really.

I've been on similar trails and have seen Jeeps filled with teenagers smoking pot, out in the open while driving their Jeep. Not the best way to help keep trails open.

Best we can do is try and educate people on the do's and don'ts and this thread is doing just that .
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Unread 06-17-2009, 08:16 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by ToxicTurtle View Post
Excellent Idea.. and unfortunately, one that has been done before.
If the blockade is not indestructible, it will be pulled down, out of the way etc.
Also unfortunately, OFR runs through the woods. When a strong blockade is built, people simply cut the small trees down or crash through the woods, earlier down the road.

One of the major reasons why we have no public lands here in New England. JQ Wheelers have no respect for property lines, rules, etc.
Last time I was down in Tellico the SFWDA had erected steel pipes along the trails to keep vehicles from leaving the trail. They were big, like 4" around. I crashed sideways into one pretty hard and it didn't flinch. There was no getting around this thing.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 02:42 PM   #83
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With OFR being a public road surrounded by private property, erecting permanent barriers isn't as easy as it is on private property.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 05:10 PM   #84
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Tellico wasn't private property either. I understand how it could be difficult with borders but it would keep people off private land.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 07:06 PM   #85
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Tellico is Federal land. Public property on every side of the roads and trails throughout the recreation area. SFWDA was able to garner federal grant money to purchase much of the materials needed for those barriers.

Tellico is pretty much closed these days as many locals (and/or other visitors as well) couldn't stay on marked trails. There are several national initiatives out there to completely close Tellico.

OFR is a public road. Any REAL work done on the road (IE installing large steel barriers, as opposed to just moving large trees into position) needs to have permits, etc. If any of the barriers lay on private land, they need to have special variances, etc. and permission from the land owners.
What happens is that JQ Irresponsible wheeler rolls up to the first obstacle. They know instantly they can't drive up it and they don't have a winch, so instead of turning around and leaving, they look around for a way to bypass said obstacle. There lies a barrier and beyond it a pretty simple looking alternate route. Unfortunately, what happens is just one idiot feels the barrier doesn't refer to them and they look back down the road for a way to bushwhack up to the bypass. Now you have a new bypass cut through the woods, adding to the bypass already there.
Fast FWD a few weeks and another group comes along. They see the bypass first and look ahead to see the obstacle. They immediately turn off onto newly cut bypass. So we put signs up. Some wonderful renegades come along and tear em down. We are in a perfect downward spiral due to these idiots who don't give a crap and/or are totally ignorant.

Its really just a matter of a few years before all of our public roads will be closed to our use and then, the green groups will be coming for our private lands.
No one wants to look ahead.. well, ok, not No One, but definitely not enough people care enough to be involved to the level needed to save what we have. I have been trying to push a rope for the last 20 years and finally woke up to the fact that it just won't do it.

Unless we can generate well over 100 letters every month to our state legislators and the governor and the head of the DEP and DCRs in our states, we are going to lose and will never ever get anything new opened. Every state needs to have at least that many residents writing letters, every month to generate enough concern from the state officials.. we're lucky if we can get 20 people to write 3 times a year... within the entire New England region.

I like to win and I know when I can't. With what we got, we can't win.

Talk soon
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Unread 10-17-2009, 07:54 PM   #86
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Now that beavers have been out of the area for several years

Note: the Beavers are back! I saw a tree by the waterhole that was clearly
cut by beavers. You could see how they chewed the tree down.
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Unread 11-09-2009, 08:17 AM   #87
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So this trail starts off a main road and ends to a main road correct? I am not going to get to the end and have to turn around like ma bell correct?
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Unread 11-09-2009, 08:33 AM   #88
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Starts in Adams on a main rd, and ends in Savoy on a main rd. You dont have to turn around and go back unless you want to, but I would suggest starting in Adams so you can do the step ups.
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Unread 11-09-2009, 09:45 AM   #89
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This is the first obsticle that scares people into useing the go around. Our club uses the strict policy of NO GO AROUNDS !!!
[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TOfw_suF2lI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TOfw_suF2lI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
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Unread 11-09-2009, 06:00 PM   #90
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So this trail starts off a main road and ends to a main road correct? I am not going to get to the end and have to turn around like ma bell correct?
Be prepared for what is usually pretty deep water crossing near the end, about 20-30 inches depending on rain, etc.. Probably lower now.
Please, do not run off through the right side mud and do not take the go around up through the woods. Stay left down through the hardpack bottom, water side. Thanx!

Talk soon,
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