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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:18 PM   #1
E_ROCK
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YJ front stretch

Well, I know this is a little bit of a double post because some of this is in the YJ section, but they are boring. People are too busy asking how to get Elmer's glue out of gas tanks and asking is the dana 35 is really that bad.

The primary focus this winter has been a lot of stuff:
1) Install atlas II and built a flatter skid. DONE!
2) Install some USA alloy axles and CTMs. Along with changing out ball joints and re-packing the front hubs. DONE!
3) Install PS comp cut corners w/ 3” tube flares. NOT DONE
4) Install some Genright tub guard along with building brackets for strengthen the firewall where the tube fender attach. NOT DONE
5) Modifying tube fenders and welding on a new hood hoop. NOT DONE
6) Installing a Superwinch 9.0EPi NOT DONE
7) Stretching the front axle forward 6” In progress

This thread is about item 7 with just a few pictures along the way of the other items. There where two main concerns/problems I had with a front stretch.

1) How does the leaf spring mounting effect caster? I am going to stay with the shackle reversed and the front mount will be very similar to the current one.

Current leaf mount


I purchased this leaf mount

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...ings-p-54.html

I also purchase this shackle hanger, but I don’t think I will use it (more on this later).

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...ger-p-132.html

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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:18 PM   #2
E_ROCK
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The following picture is an example of two ways to mount the shackle. The blue circle would be a tube welded though the frame. This method would reduce caster angle/pinion angle since the mount would be higher. The red would be using the purchased shackle hanger and it would increase caster.



Wait, what do we have here???? Yep, that is a degree shim and the direction it faces it reduces caster. So, getting a smaller shim would increase caster.


So the choice is clear, the better method would be using the blue circle and get a smaller shim to get the caster back to where it was.

2) A front stretch will cause steering problems. I have three ways to fix this problem: move steering box forward, get a reverse motion steering box and the pitman arm is forward facing, use my existing box and put the pitman arm forward and run the drag link to a behind the knuckle steering arm. I didn’t like how low the pitman arm is with a forward motion box. This person had a 6” stretch.

I decided that the best option would be to move the box forward. I remember seeing a post on pirate about a guy using 4x2x1/4” tubing to sleeve his frame, so I was going to use the same idea.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attac...hmentid=141805
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attac...hmentid=141806
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost....03&postcount=2

The first step is to cut off any the existing front cross member, suspension mounts, shock towers, and bump stops. This involved a lot of tedious grinding, cutting, and swearing. No real picture for this stuff. I made a sleeve for the pass side.


We then worked on the harder side. A friend came up with a good idea of how to cut the driverside sleeve so that we could salvage the captive nuts in the frame and reuse them.


Captive nuts - We cut them out and rewelded them into the sleeve.


I needed to make some sleeves for the PS box mount. I found some 3/8" pipe nipples that fit a 7/16" bolt great.


I complete removed the front axle from my jeep to install the shafts, CTMs, ball joints, and re-pack my front hubs. My friend Andy helped me pull my front axle apart.


Looky what Andy found. Pass side U-joint was about to blow. BV Carnage is a *****!


I used the strap to keep the front end of the spreading with the weight of the engine and no cross member. I am pretty much ready to weld on the front bumper.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:19 PM   #3
E_ROCK
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I reused my old bumper and cut it down some. Here is the results of the frame sleeves, front bumper, and steering box mount.



The grill gets in the way of the PS box hoses. Both the front of the grill and the engine bay side had to get trimmed.



Passenger side


Side view


Front view


Some of the better welds

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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:20 PM   #4
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Other stuff not really related to stretch
87Xota helped out with the Tub guard and firewall support - Thanks Terry!



REDLYNER and ArloGuthroJeep came over and started installing my corners. Thanks guys!!



I got the axle back under the YJ. It is stuffed with CTMs, Alloy axles shafts, new BJs, one new wheel bearing, and the hubs are all full of grease.


I decided to check the shackle angle before welding on the front leaf mount.


Huh, a little more angle than I expected. I was a little worried about it so I decided to flex out the spring and see if it touches the frame. I had a wheel off the driver side and put a wheel onto the pass side. Then I used my engine crane to lift up the tire.


With the spring completely flat, I can see some interference with the frame. It looks like I am going to need to cut the tack welds off and move the leaf mount more forward on the bumper.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:20 PM   #5
E_ROCK
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My other worry is how much room I have for my tie rod. The frame starts to slope back down right where my tie rod is located.


I might either need to bump stop the uptravel or notch the frame. I helped a buddy do a coil SAS swap on a trooper and this is what he did. I may do something very similar.



Stay tuned for more!
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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:28 PM   #6
REDLYNER
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Awesome work!!


Do you think a D35 will hold 35"s?








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Unread 04-30-2008, 12:50 PM   #7
grenMEG
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I really like what you have done so far, stretching the frame in the front came out really nice!

It looks like you are going to have to cut in to your frame to clear the tie rod, not really any other option. What about hydro steer? Was it ever on the agenda? Not saying it would help with clearance issues but i was just curious.

when moving your leaf mount to correct the shackle and up travel of your leaves would you keep the leaf mount horizontal (as it is now) and create a new place to mount them past the bumper? Or would you place it vertical on the bumper?

Moving themount forward will affect your caster cause it will change your stance (lift hieght), right?

Would it be an idea to cut the frame to make room for the shackle to move? Though it looks like you already reinforced the frame right where the shackle would uptravel.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 01:06 PM   #8
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I can't even build a freaking birdhouse out of popsicle sticks!!! I know it's not completed, but LOL


Can't wait to see the end product.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 01:23 PM   #9
E_ROCK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER View Post
Awesome work!!
Do you think a D35 will hold 35"s?
Only if you bling it out REDLYNER style!

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenMEG View Post
I really like what you have done so far, stretching the frame in the front came out really nice!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenMEG View Post
It looks like you are going to have to cut in to your frame to clear the tie rod, not really any other option. What about hydro steer? Was it ever on the agenda? Not saying it would help with clearance issues but i was just curious.
There is one option. You can limit travel with bump stops in lieu of cutting the frame. But, I have done this much cutting and grinding. Why stop the fun now! Bump stopping would also solve the shackle clearance issue. I already have hyrdo assist. No plans to go full hydro. If I was to go that route, it would have been cheaper to start with the rear. Although I did ruin my budget with a super secret, cool, blingy part. Opps, I said to much. Jay will love it! I also worry about the steetablity of full hydro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenMEG View Post
when moving your leaf mount to correct the shackle and up travel of your leaves would you keep the leaf mount horizontal (as it is now) and create a new place to mount them past the bumper? Or would you place it vertical on the bumper?

Moving themount forward will affect your caster cause it will change your stance (lift hieght), right?
It is stay horizontal. I only need it to come forward a tiny bit,mayybe a 1/4 or 3/8". I don't like it sticking a little in front of the bumper, but it will do. It is hard to tell for the pictures, but the leaf is almost completely flat, so the shackle shouldn't be moving too much more. Once a leaf goes to a reverse arch, the shackle begins to move back forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenMEG View Post
Would it be an idea to cut the frame to make room for the shackle to move? Though it looks like you already reinforced the frame right where the shackle would uptravel.
I didn't think about that and is good idea. I might be a little tricky since I plated over the old shackle hole. I think it still bit be easier to move the front shackle forward a tiny bit.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 02:02 PM   #10
grenMEG
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WOW! you kicked the crap out of my post!

I was just thinking out loud (typing out loud ), and tried not to mention DANA turdy five stuff

It would be easier just breaking loose the front perch and moving it towards the front.


THAT LOOKS LIKE SO MUCH FUN!!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
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Unread 05-13-2008, 09:33 AM   #11
E_ROCK
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Well, I moved my front hanger forward 3/8” and the rear shackle interference is much improved.


I am still going to have to deal with the tie rod interference along with the hydro assist mount. Those vertical tabs clamp the mount on the tie rod. I can’t face it down because it would hit the u-bolt plate. I can’t face it back because this is where the tabs for the ram are. I don’t think I can face them forward because of the drag link. Huh, what to do????


I got the steering shaft lengthened. I used a section of pipe that slipped over existing steering shaft. The steering shaft was cut and the piped added.


I got the passenger side tub guard mounted. I used nutzerts in the areas where the heat blocks access to uses nuts.


I had to abandon the method of bracing the inside of the firewall. The bracket that I had Terry make, were actually pulling the firewall in the opposite direction when I was tightening the tube fender mounting bolts. Instead I had to weld on a piece of metal to the tub guard that braces the outside of the firewall. This required me to make a bunch of changes to the way the tube fender mount to the firewall. I didn’t want to do this because of the time required to make the changes to the tube fender, but it will be a better overall design.




Since my old bumper had tube work tied to the tube fenders. I needed to re-design how it mounted. I decided to mount them directly to the grill just like any aftermarket tube fender. In this picture you can see where I cut the fender and I will have a flat plate welded to the tube and the grill mount.



Bought some 2.0 Fox air bumps


I decide that this is the last iteration of the front end and I like the spring over with shackle reversal front. However I don’t like how much time I spend on my front bumpstops on the trail. Solution – throw money at the problem. I think I am going to like these. I am not too sure how to set these things up yet. I take it you have to discharge the nitrogen that way they easily compress. Then you fully flex the suspension and set the air bumps so they bottom out. Then you get them charge back up with nitrogen and play with pressure. If you choose, you can also play with the valving and oil level.
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Unread 05-13-2008, 10:08 AM   #12
grenMEG
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air stops.

how are you going to mount them? Did you get the fancy bracket with them? Fabbing one would probably be the better $$$ route.


Looking GoOD, is it going to be a DD?
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Unread 05-13-2008, 11:31 AM   #13
E_ROCK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenMEG View Post
air stops.

how are you going to mount them? Did you get the fancy bracket with them? Fabbing one would probably be the better $$$ route.


Looking GoOD, is it going to be a DD?
I picked up a set of theses:


Nope, the jeep hasn't been a DD for awhile. Its too hard to play all weekend without worrying how you are getting to work on Monday.
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Unread 05-13-2008, 12:32 PM   #14
grenMEG
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yep those are the "Fancy" brackets i speak of.

i guess a better way to put my question is it going to be a trailer queen?
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Unread 05-13-2008, 01:34 PM   #15
E_ROCK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenMEG View Post
yep those are the "Fancy" brackets i speak of.

i guess a better way to put my question is it going to be a trailer queen?

Nope, it isn't a trailer queen. I would have to buy a new house inorder to store a trailer! It use to drive down the road great and I hope it still will!
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Last edited by E_ROCK; 05-13-2008 at 01:51 PM..
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