Just to clear some things up. The 2011 thread is talking about the ruts being graded off at Charalloux (sp?) gap, that happended after gman couldn;t make it. I haven't seen him in a couple of years. There IS a way around three feathers to chiva but it is longer with several steep climbs that could get interseting with all the rain. Take a look at JKO Tucson hangout....there is a M&G at the Irish Pub and then a night run to chimney rock on the 4th. I won;t be there. I will be at the welding/mod get together on the 11th and a couple of us going to do easy trails (broken arrow etc) in sedona on the 18th. There may also be a harder run to Florence junction on the 18th although that is not set in stone yet........Although I have done stuff in cars that would freak out some jeepers, a "car" will NOT make it to chiva. A stock jeep can/will but may sustainn some undercarriage dents. I have done it numeours times in my open open x wiht 2.5" lift, quick discos and 33s.