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Unread 06-24-2013, 07:16 PM   #1
sanctified
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Looking for some drive line help. (Pics)

Back story: 1983 CJ7, I6, SOA on tired springs.

I went to Moab a few weeks ago and kept breaking u-bolts and u-joints. The first one broke while messing around on a small drop off by camp and the one after that while trying to go back up the steep ledge on Fins where the trail leads you on top and there are three ways down. Its on the first part of the trail, sorry I can't describe it any better than that. The second break on Fins was right by the radio tower on the second section of the trail. There is a steep incline there and then a decent right turn with a steep incline. After that break I tucked my tail and bailed on the trail. I broke another one the next day on 3D.

I got home and put in a totally fresh u joint and u bolts and have driven it on the road since then. I do take it on 201 and get up to 65 mph. My buddies have had various opinions on what is causing my problems, pinion angle, bad tranny and motor mounts, maybe a combo of tired springs and tranny wobble. I thought that the problem was isolated to just wheeling but on Saturday night I started to get a vibration. It made me nervous so I went home and parked the Jeep. I tried to go out again on Sunday morning only to turn around a block away.

Tonight I crawled under and looked at the driveline to try and figure out if something came loose and found that the u joint was trashed.

Can someone help me figure out what would cause this to happen? I replaced the motor and tranny mounts last weekend, I don't think that the pinion angle is bad enough to cause this especially since the drive shaft is a double cardon. I don't know what to do with this thing.

I really want to go to the meetup tomorrow and may just throw another fresh u joint on there but I need to fix the problem that is causing this. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.




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Unread 06-24-2013, 07:39 PM   #2
team1k
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Problem = SOA on tired springs

Do you have an antiwrap bar?
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Unread 06-24-2013, 07:57 PM   #3
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No, no antiwrap bar. Where would one look to find one for a reasonable price? The M.O.R.E. traction bar is $270. Can one be had for less money? Would replacing the tired spring fix the problem or would they just get trashed in short order without an antiwrap bar?
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Unread 06-24-2013, 08:18 PM   #4
team1k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanctified
No, no antiwrap bar. Where would one look to find one for a reasonable price? The M.O.R.E. traction bar is $270. Can one be had for less money? Would replacing the tired spring fix the problem or would they just get trashed in short order without an antiwrap bar?
I know people make them for cheaper but I've never done it. Most options are pretty much around that price I believe. New springs would help but yeah they would get messed up after a while and don't really solve the issue if using stock springs. You can get stiffer springs from other vehicles or make junkyard packs but to me that's more effort than its worth. I'd just keep an eye out for a good antiwrap bar.

Or you could always 4 link the rear
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Unread 06-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team1k View Post
Or you could always 4 link the rear
I don't even know what that means. I'm just a moron when it comes to this stuff. I know it needs new springs and they are on my short list, might be next up anyway. I had thought about throwing on YJ springs but I would need to change out the perches and a few other things. Like you said though, may be more hassle than its worth.
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Unread 06-24-2013, 09:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanctified

I don't even know what that means. I'm just a moron when it comes to this stuff. I know it needs new springs and they are on my short list, might be next up anyway. I had thought about throwing on YJ springs but I would need to change out the perches and a few other things. Like you said though, may be more hassle than its worth.
No worries, everyone has to start somewhere. The conversion to YJ springs I've read gets you a better ride and a stronger spring since they are wider. The advantage of that swap is its been done by many people before so there's plenty of info on it which is perfect if your newer to custom work. I say go for it!
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Unread 06-25-2013, 09:17 AM   #7
Moab_cj5
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You can go YJ springs in the rear without modification. They are the same width in the rear as the CJ. On an 83, the length is close enough you can likely do it without needing new shackles.
The front springs require new wider perches on the axle, new shackle hangers that are moved forward on the frame to accomodate the longer springs, and new bushings for the rear of the spring.
The hanger for the rear of the spring is already the right width, but new busings are needed because the CJ bushing is wider to fill the space.

BTW, if you want a new frame to start rebuilding from, let me know. I have a NEW CJ7 frame sitting in my shed I will sell you cheap, just to get it out of my Shed.
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Unread 06-25-2013, 07:16 PM   #8
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Id' put some jackstands under the rear axle and turn the driveline by hand and look for some sort of contact or rubbing first . Start at the rear then check the CV . It sounds like extreme angles .
Look at your 2nd pic, left side .
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Unread 06-26-2013, 09:16 AM   #9
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I agree with mod stock it looks like you are binding up.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 10:22 AM   #10
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I did put some jack stands under it yesterday when I replaced my u joint for the meet up. There isn't any binding on flat ground, everything spins and is smooth. The gouges are from when I broke the joints in Moab and the drive line banged around before I could get pulled over.

After talking with Dave (Moab CJ5) at the meet up I think I have a pretty good idea of what direction to go and feel like I more or less understand the background to my issues. I think I am going to get Old Man Emu stock height YJ springs and an anti wrap bar. I will probably do the anti wrap bar first and the springs a month or so later (unless I am feeling rich and do the rear springs with the bar and the fronts a bit later since they will take more work). I am still trying to figure out what all I need to buy in addition to the springs for that part and which anti wrap bar to buy since I don't have fab skills. I am leaning towards the M.O.R.E. bar or this one from Sams 4x4. (A little lower on that page is a regular duty bar that is a bit cheaper and seems to fit my goals.)

Dave- what was the name of that shop you told me about last night thats in Tooele? I checked google and came up blank.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 12:49 PM   #11
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Unread 06-26-2013, 01:39 PM   #12
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Exactly, his springs are fine until under load then they twist and bind causing it to detonate a ujoint. All jeep are pretty good guys and I've bought things from them before.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 02:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team1k View Post
detonate
Quiet a fitting description. After wasting even more time at work looking up this stuff it appears that Old Man Emu doesn't sell "stock" height springs for the YJ that I was hoping to find and only has 2.5"ers.

Have you guys any experience with Crown or Omix-Ada springs? I am not real pleased with the few replacement things I have gotten from them already but didn't know how hard it was to screw up a leaf spring.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 04:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanctified

Quiet a fitting description. After wasting even more time at work looking up this stuff it appears that Old Man Emu doesn't sell "stock" height springs for the YJ that I was hoping to find and only has 2.5"ers.

Have you guys any experience with Crown or Omix-Ada springs? I am not real pleased with the few replacement things I have gotten from them already but didn't know how hard it was to screw up a leaf spring.
I'm running crown springs on the front in a spring over. Seem to be ok. I used YJ rear springs on the front since it has an extra leaf.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 05:34 PM   #15
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Thanks. I was able to get the three springs he had for $150 which I am real happy about. The fourth is going to cost me about $90 but whatever. These are Omix-Ada 5 leaf rear springs. I couldn't find any data on whether they were considered heavy/medium/regular duty though.

I called a 4x4 shop to ask about rates on installing the anti wrap bar and he said he would want to build a truss and as well as a custom bar. It was going to cost $850, I think that is super over kill for my goals. I called alljeep but had to leave a message. I am hoping they are more reasonable. Fat Bobs said installation would be 5 hours and like $375. I just can't imagine it would take that long, I was hoping the total install cost would be around $100-150.
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