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Unread 09-10-2013, 12:57 AM   #751
Puck81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powrjunkey View Post

Handgun rounds don't travel at high enough velocities to cause significant cavitation. That's why rifle rounds are so much more effective. They're much faster and cause significant cavitation. Hollow points transfer more energy to the target rather than traveling through at relatively slow speed(compared to rifle rounds.)
Ok, that make a ton of sense. Thats why there is hollow point pistol rounds and not rifle rounds.(minus .223 PD hollow points)

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Unread 09-10-2013, 01:36 AM   #752
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I've only ever seen 223 hollow point varmin rounds. Not to say there aren't 308 or others available though. Generally, you want a rifle round to be a FMJ. It's a lot more stable at distance and able to cause hydraulic cavitation because it retains its velocity better. Next time you're over, I'll open up a ballistics manual and show you the numbers. It's staggering the differences in velocity from pistol to rifle rounds. A couple of extremes here...a certain 45 load may produce a round that travels at less than 1000FPS(feet per second.) my 204 ruger, which is a 223 necked down to 204, travels at over 4000fps! Smaller bullet, but much higher velocity! Much greater hydraulic damage at the same distances. Sure, the 45 will have a larger entry and exit hole, but the 204 makes jelly inside!
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Unread 09-10-2013, 03:37 AM   #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powrjunkey
I've only ever seen 223 hollow point varmin rounds. Not to say there aren't 308 or others available though. Generally, you want a rifle round to be a FMJ. It's a lot more stable at distance and able to cause hydraulic cavitation because it retains its velocity better. Next time you're over, I'll open up a ballistics manual and show you the numbers. It's staggering the differences in velocity from pistol to rifle rounds. A couple of extremes here...a certain 45 load may produce a round that travels at less than 1000FPS(feet per second.) my 204 ruger, which is a 223 necked down to 204, travels at over 4000fps! Smaller bullet, but much higher velocity! Much greater hydraulic damage at the same distances. Sure, the 45 will have a larger entry and exit hole, but the 204 makes jelly inside!
Kind of... Velocity without the ability to transfer energy is useless. Most rifle hunting rounds are copper jacketed surrounding a lead core. You will also note that most rifle hunting rounds have either a blunted tip or a plastic tip. Both are designed to do the same thing. Allow the lead core to expand. The reason the lead core expands is to transfer energy otherwise all you have is an itty bitty hole all the way through the target. You get the same thing when trying to shoot a rabbit with a 9MM FMJ round. A little bitty hole all the way through the target. Even when using hollow points in the 9MM flavor on a rabbit, you may not get the expansion required to get a clean, humane kill. It really depends on a few different factors. Distance to target, relative velocity, size of the hollow pointed section and quite a few others can make a large change in how a round performs in the target. Next time you get a chance, check out a couple of youtube videos on 9MM rounds into ballistics gel. You will see that a FMJ round travels a good 6-8 inches into the gel before the wound channel opens up. The same thing happens inside the rabbit except that by the time it has traveled that far, it is already through the other side.

Edit: to help you out. Only about the first 3-4 minutes are relevant.

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Unread 09-10-2013, 07:34 AM   #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powrjunkey View Post
I've only ever seen 223 hollow point varmin rounds. Not to say there aren't 308 or others available though. Generally, you want a rifle round to be a FMJ. It's a lot more stable at distance and able to cause hydraulic cavitation because it retains its velocity better. Next time you're over, I'll open up a ballistics manual and show you the numbers. It's staggering the differences in velocity from pistol to rifle rounds. A couple of extremes here...a certain 45 load may produce a round that travels at less than 1000FPS(feet per second.) my 204 ruger, which is a 223 necked down to 204, travels at over 4000fps! Smaller bullet, but much higher velocity! Much greater hydraulic damage at the same distances. Sure, the 45 will have a larger entry and exit hole, but the 204 makes jelly inside!
Really? Hunting rounds are designed to expand and do as much damage as possible in order to kill humanely. Also, having been doing a lot of 600-1000 yd shooting, some of my most accurate rounds are HPBTs...hollow point boat tails. These are designed to break up on impact on a steel target.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 08:14 AM   #755
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Correct me if I'm wrong but rifle rounds tend to tumble once entering a target hence the small entry, large exit. I've nailed game with .223 and it looks like a .22 at entry and a massive exit. That's what I've always figured what was happening. I could also see it as just slug expansion but you would think that size of expansion would prevent exiting.
Well looks like we need to go call some coyotes and test our theories.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksturgio
Correct me if I'm wrong but rifle rounds tend to tumble once entering a target hence the small entry, large exit. I've nailed game with .223 and it looks like a .22 at entry and a massive exit. That's what I've always figured what was happening. I could also see it as just slug expansion but you would think that size of expansion would prevent exiting.
Well looks like we need to go call some coyotes and test our theories.
I'm down.
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Unread 09-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #757
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My weapon of choice for home defense is a 1911 loaded with hollow points. I have verified they do not pass through the walls of my dining room.
If somebody wants to survive an encounter with you they just need to wear a vest of kitchen tile.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 03:08 PM   #758
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Here is a pic of the new gun.
image-3275186026.jpg

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Unread 09-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #759
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WOW! that looks REALLY nice! Congrats!
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Unread 09-12-2013, 04:19 PM   #760
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Here is a pic of the new gun.
want want want want want want want want want want want want want want WANT!
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Unread 09-12-2013, 04:31 PM   #761
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want want want want want want want want want want want want want want WANT!
Fix your brakes
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Unread 09-12-2013, 04:44 PM   #762
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Fix your brakes
I'm going to try this weekend. i have the new prop valve. That isnt a money issue....

I dont know what to do if this doesnt fix/help.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #763
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I'm going to try this weekend. i have the new prop valve. That isnt a money issue....

I dont know what to do if this doesnt fix/help.
Shut it! Just fix them!
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Unread 09-12-2013, 05:03 PM   #764
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come help?
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Unread 09-12-2013, 06:50 PM   #765
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I ain't a brake expert, you heard what I had to do with the race truck and that was only after I got a 25+ year auto tech over here to help me figure it out. LOL I'm much better at drilling holes in fuel lines!
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