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Unread 03-21-2014, 02:07 PM   #1726
matthew900
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Jeeps aren’t in the constitution, guns are. I think Law enforcement is always leery of doing anything that might be perceived as restricting people's right to own and use their guns so they turn a blind eye.

A better question I have is why isn’t the shooting community organizing clean ups like the off-road community often does when a specific trail or wheeling area starts to need it?

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Unread 03-21-2014, 02:16 PM   #1727
ksturgio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew900
Jeeps aren’t in the constitution, guns are. I think Law enforcement is always leery of doing anything that might be perceived as restricting people's right to own and use their guns so they turn a blind eye. A better question I have is why isn’t the shooting community organizing clean ups like the off-road community often does when a specific trail or wheeling area starts to need it?
What world are you living in? Gun rights are always in the table constitutional or not. I always take what I bring back when I shoot, and I know others on here do the same. Back in the day there were junkyards and dumps all over the desert and that is where people went to shoot. I remember as a kid shooting at junked cars all the time out near apex. Maybe that is why people think they can just dump out in the desert. Personally I never take glass out to shoot just because I hate when there is glass everywhere that will never be cleaned up. In the new "green" world we live in I think they will do something about it which is most likely just closing the area off to everyone.
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Unread 03-21-2014, 02:36 PM   #1728
Dr. Marneaus
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Like Scott said, I'm the same way. I used to break glass but have really wised up since then. These days I even pick up my shotgun hulls as much as I can. Normally when we go with groups somebody will bring a few trash bags and we'll pack out more than we brought in.

I mostly do shooting in spots that are not trashed so its super easy to see what you dropped and pick it up. Since we've been shooting alot of reusable targets (bowling pins, steel, etc) there normally isn't much left behind.

It does upset me to see the amounts of bulk trash that are left out in these areas though. Tires and couches and TV's and ****.
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Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else!
Well I figured it up and over a period of time, This four thousand dollar car of mine, Cost fourteen thousand dollars And ninety-nine cents, well now!
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Unread 03-21-2014, 02:52 PM   #1729
sirhk100
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Originally Posted by matthew900 View Post
Jeeps aren’t in the constitution, guns are.
Lay off the drugs man, constitution or not I don't give a flying F about that! Shoot all you want but it has NOTHING to do with leaving all your crap laying in the desert. I simply am asking, in the shooting world, is this a socially acceptable practice? Cause EVERY single shooting area I pass by looks the same. It looks like the dump or the hills of tijuana and you know with 100% no doubt you can't deny that. So I'm simply asking, is this just the common socially acceptable thing in your hobby or is it just a few bad apples that are doing the most?

The constitution doesn't give you the right to leave our public lands looking like absolute crap just because you own a gun!
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Unread 03-21-2014, 02:55 PM   #1730
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Well you also got to think that not all of that trash comes from just shooters, everyone goes to the desert to dump trash off (I used to). So you can't just assume it's all shooters fault, this isn't a guilty by association thing which you made it out to be.

I'm sure why a lot never gets cleaned up (shooters, off roaders etc) is the mindset of "it isn't mine so f**k it, I'm not cleaning that up"
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Unread 03-21-2014, 03:05 PM   #1731
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Okay, I will agree with that somewhat but is it just coincidence that it seems like a majority of the places where it literally looks like a dump is also the locations where shooters typically gather?

I'm not even accusing a single person on here, you may all be perfect saints and pickup every single shell you've ever ejected. I'm just asking if it's a socially acceptable practice cause from someone like me that's an outsider to your hobby, it looks like complete crap and the common sense part of me doesn't understand how it's acceptable! I've NEVER gone shooting in the deserts at all around here. Never, not a single time. Only places I've ever shot around here are at the boulder city range and I've been to American Shooters once. That's why I'm asking, is it normal cause if so, that's friggen messed up and someone needs to start putting the word out that it's not acceptable.


BTW, I'm willing to bet just about every single person here when out camping, at the end of the weekend when you're picking up the camp... I bet every single person here picks up all their trash and any other trash laying in their camp whether it was theirs to begin with or not. So if others are dumping, why aren't others picking it up when cleaning up after themselves? It just seems like shooting is the only hobby that happens in rural areas where litter is accepted. (point out another if I'm wrong cause I can't think of another where the staging area in the middle of the desert is typically trashed) Again, that's purely from an ignorant outsider's point of view and that's why I'm asking. I'm also asking cause people are talking about it after the mint this weekend and about how insanely trashed one single particular part of a 94 mile race loop was. Enough so that you can look on google earth and see the trash.
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Unread 03-21-2014, 04:26 PM   #1732
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It's a little of everything. All it takes is for one group of shooters to leave trash, then dumpers see it and start dumping. Other shooters just leave trash too. Too few of us pack out more than we pack in. It is the mindset that the desert can be used as a dumping ground. Many people don't understand how fragile the desert really is, or simply don't care.
It is a shame that shooters and dumpers cause so much damage, but desert riders/racers are targeted for much less.
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Unread 03-21-2014, 04:29 PM   #1733
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Anyone know of a local place selling complete AR uppers at reasonable prices? Preferably piston rather than impingement.
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Unread 03-21-2014, 04:49 PM   #1734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powrjunkey View Post
It's a little of everything. All it takes is for one group of shooters to leave trash, then dumpers see it and start dumping. Other shooters just leave trash too. Too few of us pack out more than we pack in. It is the mindset that the desert can be used as a dumping ground. Many people don't understand how fragile the desert really is, or simply don't care.
It is a shame that shooters and dumpers cause so much damage, but desert riders/racers are targeted for much less.
LOL, I've been an evil trash dumping villan dirt biker my whole life. But what makes me always laugh at that accusation is where do they think I'm hiding all this trash that I supposedly leave while riding my dirt bike? Also what trash do they think I'm leaving cause when I go riding I typically have my gear bag and a gas can. The practice of riding actually doesn't involve anything that's packaged and consumed that needs to be disposed of. The staging areas I go to are always spotless so we must be leaving our trash on the trails. I just don't know how to carry enough to do it! LOL I won't lie though, I have seen a particular beer can on top of a ridgeline out near nelson that I've passed by riding quite a few times and always laugh at how the heck it got there!!! Like seriously, what biker was drinking up there!!! It's on top of this HUGE technical climb and just the most odd spot to see litter let alone a friggen beer can!!! And how shook up was it by then too!!!??? LOL

Like I said, wasn't accusing a single person here, just something I've always seen and just don't understand how it seems to fly in those areas.
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Unread 03-21-2014, 06:02 PM   #1735
matthew900
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What I meant was law enforcement is probably scared of cracking down on the shooters that leave a mess because of blow back that they are violating people's rights.

I guarantee that if we were making a mess of the trails when we wheel they would ban us from those trails. Just like it takes a few people out of the whole wheeling community to trash a trail it's only a few shooters making the mess. I know you all clean up after yourself.
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Unread 03-21-2014, 06:12 PM   #1736
sirhk100
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Good luck making a ticket for littering have any correlation to someone's 2nd amendment rights...
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Unread 03-21-2014, 08:01 PM   #1737
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IMO there are jerks in every "hobby". I have seen plenty of idiots in the offroad community trashing land and protected areas with oil spills, blatant disregard for tread lightly concepts, etc. JV, Logandale, Nellis, dunes, etc. and a number of other areas has plenty of jerks (not organized racers) that leave actual trash everywhere. Same goes for shooters. Unfortunately the shooters stuff is a lot more concentrated because of the limited areas.. which in turn inspires more people to just add to it + shooters have a widely diverse group of people, many that are more cognizant than others; if you don't believe me or understand, spend the day out at a popular shooting area just people watching. There are organized cleanups amongst the shooting enthusiasts too. Being one of those folks that enjoys shooting as well as dirt bikes, jeeps, etc. I see it from everywhere and would have a hard time blaming it on just one group. That being said, I would wholeheartedly agree that because of the aforementioned diversity among the shooting crowd, that it is inherently worse with shooters - but NEVER acceptable to those that are true enthusiasts. The same which could be said for the offroad community. It's much cheaper to shoot than to get an offroad rig so I am guessing that plays a factor too.
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Unread 03-22-2014, 12:16 PM   #1738
Dr. Marneaus
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Khris,

The answer to youir question is "No, its not socially acceptable to us responsible shooters." As mentioned there are often efforts to clean up above and beyond what we took out with us.

However you get alot of morons who dont give a flying **** about picking up behind themselves, and thus the issues you see.
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Quote:
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else!
Well I figured it up and over a period of time, This four thousand dollar car of mine, Cost fourteen thousand dollars And ninety-nine cents, well now!
- Jerry Reed

The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

Gone but not Forgotten: 97 TJs Build Up.

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Unread 03-22-2014, 12:20 PM   #1739
Dr. Marneaus
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I keep forgetting that it does this cool little trick:
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Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else!
Well I figured it up and over a period of time, This four thousand dollar car of mine, Cost fourteen thousand dollars And ninety-nine cents, well now!
- Jerry Reed

The Beast Build Thread: Marns '73 Wagoneer Thread ----- The Camper Build Thread: Marns 1980 Jayco JayFinch6 Build Thread

Gone but not Forgotten: 97 TJs Build Up.

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Unread 03-22-2014, 04:24 PM   #1740
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I have been shooting in an area that had been recently closed by the BLM. The Ranger explained to me the reason they had closed it was pretty simple. All the A holes who bring out their computers, monitors, tvs, or other household appliances to shoot as well as the other A holes who make a living hauling off other people's junk who don't want to pay the fee at a Republic trash transfer station. The BLM doesn't have in their budget to go and load several 20yd trash bins and haul it off. Not to mention the environmental impact it has on the area. Computers and other electronics have some pretty nasty chemicals that when they leach into the ground will create all kinds of problems. So every time an area gets cluttered with trash the BLM will close it off and then we as citizens lose even more of our lands to recreate on. Soon we will by like many other states and cities where you are only allowed to shoot at ranges only. And i'm sure everyone on here knows how much it sucks eggs to have to go to a range where you are restricted on certain types of ammo, certain types of targets, strict rules on firearm handling, having to have non shooting periods where everyone has to go and set up targets or take them down. It sucks mule tool and a major reason I don't belong to any private shooting ranges. It takes the joy out of going shooting.

I don't care if you go out and want to shoot up a bunch of crap. It's fun to shoot reactionary targets. But clean up after yourself. If you go shoot out near Jean you can always stop on the way home at the Sloan Garbage transfer station. Have an old bill and it won't cost you anything. I have taken large outdoor garbage bags with me to the range and have filled up the back of our 4Runner with garbage and hauled it off. I hate A holes who dump out in the Desert.
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