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Guns - The Official Southern Nevada/Las Vegas Gun Thread

136K views 3K replies 40 participants last post by  Grand_ZJ 
#1 ·
Remington 700 SPS Tactical, Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50, McMillan M40a1 stock, Harris 6-9" bipod in Duracoat flat dark earth

Gas Grass Bicycle part Pipe Auto part


Almost complete...gotta hit the range this weekend.
 
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#2,283 ·
Not to get into details of the Ferguson deal but did any of you read the entire 90 page transcript of Wilson's testamony? Either way, question for you... He carried a Sig p229 .40. EVERYTHING in the statement makes sense to me except one thing really. When he's talking about being in the car with Brown getting on him, he draws the gun. Has one hand blocking his face from the attack. He eventually is able to pull the trigger but it doesn't fire, just clicks. He says he pulled it twice, click click, then the 3rd pull it fired.


Any misfire I've ever had required me to pull the slide back and chamber the next round. If I pull the trigger and it just goes click, my glock doesn't reset so pulling the trigger again does nothing for me. Is the sig different? How did he pull the trigger 3 times, first two nothing, 3rd goes bang single handed without racking the slide? (sorry, my gun lingo is probably incorrect for you purests...)


To continue, if you haven't read it, the gun goes off, shoots thru the door, shatters the window that's rolled down in the door, scares them both. After a brief hesitation and step back Brown apparantly reconfronts Wilson again coming back for more. Wilson raises the gun, click, nothing... This time though, the struggle has his hands free, he racks it, and pulls the trigger again in the general direction and bang, goes off. Then the situation moves to outside of the vehicle.


So... Is that possible? Click, click, bang! without reracking the slide?
 
#2,284 ·
Not to get into details of the Ferguson deal but did any of you read the entire 90 page transcript of Wilson's testamony? Either way, question for you... He carried a Sig p229 .40. EVERYTHING in the statement makes sense to me except one thing really. When he's talking about being in the car with Brown getting on him, he draws the gun. Has one hand blocking his face from the attack. He eventually is able to pull the trigger but it doesn't fire, just clicks. He says he pulled it twice, click click, then the 3rd pull it fired.

Any misfire I've ever had required me to pull the slide back and chamber the next round. If I pull the trigger and it just goes click, my glock doesn't reset so pulling the trigger again does nothing for me. Is the sig different? How did he pull the trigger 3 times, first two nothing, 3rd goes bang single handed without racking the slide? (sorry, my gun lingo is probably incorrect for you purests...)

To continue, if you haven't read it, the gun goes off, shoots thru the door, shatters the window that's rolled down in the door, scares them both. After a brief hesitation and step back Brown apparantly reconfronts Wilson again coming back for more. Wilson raises the gun, click, nothing... This time though, the struggle has his hands free, he racks it, and pulls the trigger again in the general direction and bang, goes off. Then the situation moves to outside of the vehicle.

So... Is that possible? Click, click, bang! without reracking the slide?
Your Glock is striker fired which means the firing pin (striker) is always held under some amount of tension, and once its dropped you need to cycle the slide as the trigger does nothing other than release the firing pin (striker). A typical style Sig (such as the 229) has a hammer, not only does it have a hammer, but it functions as what is called double action/single action, and has a decocker. What this means is that when not being actively fired the hammer is down at rest like a revolver.

So unlike say a 1911 that has to have the hammer manually cocked back the first time by racking the slide to work (note that you need to carry a 1911 with the hammer cocked, and the safety on), something that is DA/SA cocks the hammer as you pull the trigger on the first shot you take, exactly a double action (read: modern non cowboy style) revolver. However being a semi auto the slide automatically cocks the hammer back it after the first shot, thus giving you a single action pull (as if you manually cocked the hammer on a revolver THEN pulled the trigger) for the next shot.

This means big long difficult trigger pull for shot number 1 (which functions as the safety), and shot number 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 etc all have a short crisp 'hair trigger' pull because the slide left the hammer back for you.

When done firing, rather than putting on a safety, you use the decocker which drops the hammer without setting off the round, thus requiring a big long heavy trigger pull to cock and fire the gun again, which doubles as the safety (same reason why revolvers don't have safeties).
 
#2,285 ·
what likely happened (i didnt read anything, just speculating) is that during the frackus the gun may have been in a weird position where it was pressed slightly out of battery (the slide/barrel are pressed back slightly, unless everything is fully seated in the foreward most position, it wont fire)) and it could not fire, but he kept pulling the trigger until the gun was fully locked closed and it fired.

less likely would be that there may have been a faulty round in the chamber, and it took 3 hits on the primer to set it off. This is an advantage of a double action/single action pistol, you can keep pulling the trigger if it doesnt fire....unlike a revolver where it would rotate to the next chamber, this keeps dropping the hammer/firing pin on the same round. If its a hard primer it may go off, but more than likely you'd still have to rack the slide and get the junk round out of the gun.
 
#2,287 ·
From the statement if taken as gospel... WHen Brown reached in for the gun it sounds like Wilson had it in hand but Brown grabbed it, twisted it on him and basically shoved the muzzle into Wilson's thigh sitting in the SUV and then was trying to get his finger over the top of Wilson's which was already inside the finger guard to pull the trigger on him. All the while Brown's other hand is landing blows to the head and Wilson is trying to deflect them with his other hand at the sametime if I read it correctly. So considering it sounds like the muzzle was jammed into his leg it could've pushed the slide back a bit as you mention in the first thought above. Wilson finally is able to push himself clear of it and get it twisted around remotely in Brown's direction and pulls the trigger.

It's actually a pretty interesting read if you have time. It's 90 pages but it's a VERY fast VERY easy 90 page read with BIG font and double spacing... It's probably more like a 20-30 page typical book read in all honesty/comparison. I've only read his statement, none of the other stuff but from what I'm hearing all the evidence, science, investigation, credible witnesses, etc all support his statement so... Put it this way, I read the whole thing on my lunch break with time to kill while eating.
 
#2,286 ·
Having never owned a Sig I have heard of accidental decocking with beretta 92's. Anything can happen in a situation like that. I've heard of cops never rotating ammo in mags or even cleaning firearms they carry everyday.
Regardless I think they need a curfew and inforce it with Louisville sluggers.
 
#2,288 ·
Trying to follow the mechanics of it though here...


I get what your saying that first pull would actually pull the hammer back and release it so that's your long pull and then the slide action from that first bang would actually cock the hammer for the 2nd pull and on so hence the shorter pulls.


But if the first pull goes click, the slide doesn't actuate so then the 2nd pull would be another full pull essentially both cocking and firing the hammer again? Am I following you right?
 
#2,289 ·
I have a ruger p345 that will drop the hammer with the safety on. It just clicks when it does tht, even on a loaded chamber. That's possibly what happened. If so, lucky he ha the safety on!
 
#2,293 ·
If you read the statement he flat out says at one point he was bracing to get shot in the leg during the struggle cause of how Brown had twisted the gun around on him. He didn't actually pull the trigger till he was able to wrestle the gun clear and get it pointed in Brown's general direction. He said the two shots made from inside the SUV were far from aimed, just pointed in the general direction.

The shots he took while outside the vehicle being charged at those were sighted and aimed shots according to the statement.
 
#2,290 ·
sirhk100 said:
Trying to follow the mechanics of it though here... I get what your saying that first pull would actually pull the hammer back and release it so that's your long pull and then the slide action from that first bang would actually cock the hammer for the 2nd pull and on so hence the shorter pulls. But if the first pull goes click, the slide doesn't actuate so then the 2nd pull would be another full pull essentially both cocking and firing the hammer again? Am I following you right?
You are correct without the round firig and working the slide the hammer would not be back. This resulting in another full length trigger pull.

Given the fact that the gun was pressed up against his thigh this could have created the situation I mentioned above where the slide and round were pushed back out of battery (battery = locked in position ready to fire).

Another thig that could have happened is perhaps some clothes or fingers or something could have gotten between the hammer and firing pin or even just slowed the hammer enough that it was not able to hit with enough force to set it off.
 
#2,291 ·
Powrjunkey said:
I have a ruger p345 that will drop the hammer with the safety on. It just clicks when it does tht, even on a loaded chamber. That's possibly what happened. If so, lucky he ha the safety on!
Sig is safetyless.

Just like some of the berettas only have a Decock and not a safety (I think) Though on the berettas with the safety engaged the trigger has no real resistance as in it doesn't work the hammer. And also on the berettas you cannot of the safety on without deco long first because as you move into safe it activates the Decock

I have No experience with the ruger pistols so don't know if they are different than that

Also there are sigs and berettas (and others) that have the Decock/single action feature removed (not necessarily removed just that they were built different) and are double action only which means every single trigger pull is a full heavy one and the hammer never stays back.
 
#2,292 ·
Unrelated to this story but the Daewoo pistols (the America. Imoports are called lionheart industries) have this neat little thing called double action +.

They work In the same fashion as the sigs mentioned above however if you want you can cock the hammer then push it forward and it drops without setting the gun off. At this point as soon as you apply the first stage of the trigger the hammer flys back to the fully cocked position and is ready to fire without the heavy double action pull.
 
#2,294 ·
Interesting stuff about the 229, especially as I acquired one recently. Marn summed up the mechanics nicely.
 
#2,296 ·
Under stress, one handed, unsupported, while restraining two horses and hitting center mass at 312? That is not a hell of a shot. That is flat out "holy ****!"
 
#2,297 ·
My dad is selling his stainless ruger mini 14. He's asking $850 for it. I'll try to get pics upon request, but everyone knows what a mini 14 looks like. Assuming wood stock, he wasn't very specific with his description, just asked me to post it.

Had to edit: price change due to Leopold scope. It's the laminate wood stock that's sort of blueish in tint. Comes with one 20 round magazine.
 
#2,298 ·
DG'd the frontsight combat master prep advanced test by scoring down 8!!! Couldn't get anywhere near combat master though. Allowed 40 down, and the closest I could get was down 116! Sounds terrible, but the test is a nightmare. It's 90 shots, tactical reloads, emergency reloads, and all three malfunction types...X5...each, and all scored. I was perfect on everything but marksmanship. I was late on several shots, and had a bunch of misses.
A good example of the difficulty:
7 yards, one headshot inside the CO cavity from holster...in 1.3 seconds. Times five. Then hostage shots with same time, times 20. Misses are down 5 points, late shots are down 5 points, peripheral hits are down 4 points(9mm only of course,) hostage hits are down 5 points. Twice, I entered the headshot portion within score, and then doubled it by hitting hostages and missing. VERY difficult. Only 17 frontsight members have successfully passed it!
 
#2,300 ·
Yeah. It would take me a long time to speed up enough to get there. A lot of dry practice would go a long way.
 
#2,306 ·
Dr. Marneaus said:
Sure, but this time we aint putting money on it...not gonna get hustled by you again! haha
Aww come on! We can do the but in on the 22 challenge or the shotgun challenge or even a long distance handgun challenge! I'm down to lose money for that! Keeps everyone interested.
 
#2,308 ·
Dr. Marneaus said:
name the date!
When I figure it out, I'll surely let you know. Good to have familiar faces around while making an *** of yourself, lol.

And one thing I have picked up here is, no shooting games with Powr!
 
#2,310 ·
Powrjunkey said:
I knew we should have started with rifle or something! I could have sandbagged it too. :(
I know you're dangerous with a shotgun but I know at least that we are somewhat more equally matched in that respect....same with rifle.
 
#2,311 ·
Christmas present from my wife...

Bag Luggage and bags Material property Auto part Gadget


...I love my wife! G41, which is the new long slide 45. Can't wait to try it out!
 
#2,317 ·
Christmas present from my wife...

View attachment 1763722

...I love my wife! G41, which is the new long slide 45. Can't wait to try it out!
You must have been a bad boy, you got a lump of plastic. Would have gotten a 1911 if you were a good boy! :rofl::rofl:
 
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