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Unread 08-15-2012, 04:31 PM   #14836
andy02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhk100 View Post
I'd argue that 99% of the people that CCW if they were in that theater would've been up the creek. IF YOU BELIEVE THE REPORTS, a shooter that walks into a dark theater, pops off a smoke bomb or tear gas and starts unloading... Enjoy figuring out when you have a clear shot in a dark room with I'm assuming a packed to the house theater going absolutely insane since it was opening night and there's gun shots. The chaos that probably went down inside that theater was probably to the level that anyone but the best trained would've had probably as much chance of hitting an innocent then they would've the assailant.

We can all be arm chair quarterbacks but if you really truly think you would've been effective in that size of a panic/chaotic situation I hope you don't find yourself there or at least I hope I'm not anywhere in range of where your barrel is pointing... Dark room, flashing lights from the screen, gas/smoke in the air, people running like crazy and just some flashes in the darkness and you're going to effectively target that person without worry of what's between you and them or behind or to the sides?
I have argued about this ad nuaseum with other people so I am going to toss my 2c into your arguement. The shooter in this case walked out of and back into the theater ~20 minutes later. In 20 minutes, your eyes have adjusted to the darkness. The shooter entered in the front of a theater with stadium style seating therefore, with the exception of those up front in the flat seats everybody in the theater would have been able to see him. By that same token, he could see everybody making everybody a target. The smoke is a non-issue, it would have taken a good couple of minutes in a room that size for the smoke to become thick enough that you can't see. In that amount of time, he had already done the deed and was on his way out. He moved up a side wall meaning a pretty clear shot with a good backdrop. People tend to run away from danger, not directly at it. I am willing to bet that there was not a group of people running around him, instead there was probably a pretty wide berth. Shooting from even the first elevated row would have provided for a pretty clear shot down on him over the other patrons heads. No doubt that a shooter in there could have shot an innocent person. However, you cannot name a single instance in which a CCW holder has hit an innocent person. The reason is because it has never happened. Not saying that it won't but CCW holders are usually pretty careful about stuff like that because they know it is their *** on the line should something go wrong. I am not saying that given the same situation I would or would not have taken the shot. I don't know, I wasn't there but you can bet your *** I would have been looking for a clear shot.

Okay, internet cowboy mode off.

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No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
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Unread 08-15-2012, 04:32 PM   #14837
sirhk100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post



toss me a 6 pack with the cash and you can prolly have her too, though she wont be guaranteed as 'repaired' from the factory.
Is that your house? If so, I'm jealous of the tile. I'm happy with mine in my house but if I had nothing else to do or spend money on I'd probably rip mine out and go with something closer to yours.
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Unread 08-15-2012, 04:38 PM   #14838
andy02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
As soon as my AR comes back from the factory I'm going to sell it. I dont care if it functions 1000000% of the time. It's gonna be GONE. Stupid piece of ****. Nver should have gone 'modern' and shoulda just stuck with my m1a. you know how much .308 I coulda bought for the price of this thing?

toss me a 6 pack with the cash and you can prolly have her too, though she wont be guaranteed as 'repaired' from the factory.
What is wrong with it that you had to send it to the factory? What is your asking price? And the money question... What kind of beer do you like? Would just a night cost me less than a 6er?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix
No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
Never Forget!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #14839
sirhk100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy02 View Post
Okay, internet cowboy mode off.

LOL, and that right there is what I believe 99.9% of the talk is, all talk... What ifs, I would've's, etc... If you're law enforcement or military background sure I'll 100% give you the benefit of the doubt that you'd take the shot and react appropriately taking in the situation as a whole.

But for joe blow CCW to go hero in that situation is still kinda out there in my opinion.

Sure there was the old man that unloads in the convenience store. That's a lot more of a controlled chaos scene.

I will 100% admit I'm possibly talking out of my butt here cause i'm solely going off memory and feel free to show me another scenario but every CCW stopped shooting I've ever heard of has been in a small scale situation. Not something like a completely packed class room, work place, mall, theater, etc.

When it's you, the store clerk and 3 other customers along with a shooter the target is much more obvious and clear and split second decisions of your awareness and surrounding is completely different then that theater scene probably was.

Like I said, feel free to prove me wrong, maybe it happened and the media didn't make a deal out if it which I could completely see happening. I just haven't gone out to find the info though to actually read up on it.



Internet cowboy mode on... IF I'd been in there and had my gun you damn well know it would've been drawn but I also would've been trying to make my way away from the shooter and to the nearest exit first and foremost.



Actually now speaking about this, I do want to go out some night and do some shooting. It's been a long time since I've done any shooting with my night sights. I obviously view my gun as a hobby/toy/interest rather then a self defense item. Some night shooting would be fun!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 04:53 PM   #14840
andy02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhk100 View Post
Like I said, feel free to prove me wrong, maybe it happened and the media didn't make a deal out if it which I could completely see happening. I just haven't gone out to find the info though to actually read up on it.



Internet cowboy mode on... IF I'd been in there and had my gun you damn well know it would've been drawn but I also would've been trying to make my way away from the shooter and to the nearest exit first and foremost.



Actually now speaking about this, I do want to go out some night and do some shooting. It's been a long time since I've done any shooting with my night sights. I obviously view my gun as a hobby/toy/interest rather then a self defense item. Some night shooting would be fun!
I has actually happened a few times and is quite well documented. Maybe not packed to the extent that this one was. Who knows? I won't put the incidences here so that this part of this thread can peacefully bow out.

Like I said, I don't know that I would have taken the shot. I know I would have drawn and been looking for a shot. One of the things that I thought about a long time ago is that you can do everything right in a gun fight and still wind up dead. Therefore, you have to be almost willing to die to get into one.

Night shooting? It will be dark! How will you be able to see?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix
No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
Never Forget!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 05:19 PM   #14841
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There have been multiple cases on video where convenience store clerks have shot robbers. It's unlikely they had any law enforcement or military training. Once you have a gun I your face, you must resign yourself to the possibility of death. Are you then just going to accept it and die, or draw and fire for the chance to live? Personally, I won't hesitate, and am willing to take a bullet for my wife and children! If I can stop a shooter from hurting my family at the cost of my life, price paid, I want a receipt! I probably wont engage in a stranger's situation because a good witness is better than a dead one. We can all sit here and type what I would/could do, but until you are faced with it, you just don't know. That's why there's training and practice. If you practice drawing and firing, it becomes muscle memory, and you will be more likely to succeed in a panic. If not, at least you didnt die an easy target!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #14842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
any of em, if the price is right!

As soon as my AR comes back from the factory I'm going to sell it. I dont care if it functions 1000000% of the time. It's gonna be GONE. Stupid piece of ****. Nver should have gone 'modern' and shoulda just stuck with my m1a. you know how much .308 I coulda bought for the price of this thing?
How mucho?
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Unread 08-15-2012, 06:21 PM   #14843
davidsonlaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoJared View Post
How mucho?
He said a six pack for one and cash for the other.
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Unread 08-15-2012, 06:46 PM   #14844
adams1985cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus
P.S. birdshot is a bad choice for defense.
I disagree we used bird shot at the prison in the units. I personally saw an inmate drop from a bird shot round to the chest from over 20 feet. He lived but lost a lung.
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Unread 08-15-2012, 06:47 PM   #14845
Powrjunkey
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Conversations in here go a lot like thunderstorms in Vegas. Most of them just fizzle and blow away and others rage like crazy and disappear in an instant!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #14846
andy02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoJared

How mucho?
Hey! I beat you to the punch, get in line!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix
No one really knows the reason for LCOG Jeeps.

Its so short ****s like me and you can still get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ACR View Post
My issue was I couldn't get the balls centered. I had to use some extra force to get everything lined up right. It didn't take me long.


September 11 2001
Never Forget!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 07:20 PM   #14847
Powrjunkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy02

Hey! I beat you to the punch, get in line!
Eeewwwww sloppy seconds!
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Unread 08-15-2012, 07:30 PM   #14848
Spaceball
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Oh yeah ! http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/3196384680.html
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Unread 08-15-2012, 07:44 PM   #14849
adams1985cj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powrjunkey
There have been multiple cases on video where convenience store clerks have shot robbers. It's unlikely they had any law enforcement or military training. Once you have a gun I your face, you must resign yourself to the possibility of death. Are you then just going to accept it and die, or draw and fire for the chance to live? Personally, I won't hesitate, and am willing to take a bullet for my wife and children! If I can stop a shooter from hurting my family at the cost of my life, price paid, I want a receipt! I probably wont engage in a stranger's situation because a good witness is better than a dead one. We can all sit here and type what I would/could do, but until you are faced with it, you just don't know. That's why there's training and practice. If you practice drawing and firing, it becomes muscle memory, and you will be more likely to succeed in a panic. If not, at least you didnt die an easy target!
Soo true. I have shot a person in the line of duty. I did as I was taught one to two feet in front of then to scatter the bird shot and stop the incident. When I got the job at the prison I knew it was a possibility never thought I would. But when I had to it was easy and never regretted it. Of course my life wasn't on the line but theirs was lol. Never thought twice about it again. Then I learned the dude I shot was a child molester... Wish I would have slipped when I shot and hit him in the head.
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Unread 08-15-2012, 07:52 PM   #14850
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Wasn't someone looking for one of these??

http://lasvegas.backpage.com/SportsE...ctical/7813322
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