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Unread 06-15-2015, 10:03 AM   #1
BRC_1980
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How do people consider John Bull easy?

I heard from so many people on the net that people with open/open can do this with 33's. Every open rig that tried it this weekend didn't stand a chance in the world. Some people couldn't even pass Gatekeeper. Most were forced backwards to get out of the way. The select few that did make it were pulled up.

We made the mistake of me going first and my two buddies didn't stand a chance. I'm glad they didn't pass gatekeeper because the next spot would have been more impossible. I don't know if the people that were getting pulled made the trail harder than normal but there's no way right now open/open can get through on 33's.

After the second part it's a pretty easy trail but that second part was not what I consider easy.

However, running that and then going to Gold Mountain and Heartbreak ridge made those trails seem like a cake walk.

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Unread 06-15-2015, 10:57 AM   #2
jbolty
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Everyone has their own comfort level which is why trail ratings are not really of much value. Add to that how the ruts and rocks get changed over time along with driver experience, spotter experience and the amount of body damage you are willing to put up with.
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Unread 06-16-2015, 10:19 PM   #3
222Doc
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Depends what you are used too. I have wheeled most the trails up there. Ratings are rather subjective. If i had to rate Bull in AZ i would give it only do to the one short section of boulders a 3+ that is if you go the harder left side. The rest of trail is mostly 2.. Az is 1-5. 4 is is locked 35 MIN. be prepared for body damage as well and things like axles start breaking. 5 is mainly Buggies, You wont see to many sheet metal jeeps on those, you do it wont have sheet metal long.

last i ran Bull was two years ago, we ran Gold too. Though on Gold one jeep did break a front lower control arm off<driver to right foot issue.
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Unread 06-16-2015, 11:47 PM   #4
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I did JB a few weeks ago and that section at the start is harder than normal. Most of my group made it, but we had a JKU break his driveshaft yoke so most of us just went back down the gatekeeper with him.

I would say that most will want at least one locker and 33's for JB. If someone has lots of experience, should be able to do it with less of a build. Should have at least some rails and aftermarket tie rod for a TJ or YJ. JKU tie rod should hold up if you don't mind bending it and replace later.
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Unread 06-19-2015, 08:04 PM   #5
MEinSoCal
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I've heard and seen that John Bull has gotten more difficult over the years. Supposedly one of the reason is because of all the drought we've had for many years, the trails have deteriorated and basically changed for the worse. And I agree with you, open/open with 33s is not enough to complete John Bull these days. I personally think at least one locker, especially the rear would almost be necessary.
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Unread 06-19-2015, 08:39 PM   #6
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I ran JB about 3 or 4 weeks ago and it was a little more challenging then the last time I ran it. I like to run the BB trails a couple time a year for some good fun.
Go with a couple of buddies, pick a good line and have fun.
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Unread 06-19-2015, 08:43 PM   #7
WOKNROX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicideking View Post
I did JB a few weeks ago and that section at the start is harder than normal. Most of my group made it, but we had a JKU break his driveshaft yoke so most of us just went back down the gatekeeper with him.

I would say that most will want at least one locker and 33's for JB. If someone has lots of experience, should be able to do it with less of a build. Should have at least some rails and aftermarket tie rod for a TJ or YJ. JKU tie rod should hold up if you don't mind bending it and replace later.
Yj's are a little different then Tj's Xj's and Jk's Rick. All the steering linkage is above the leafsprings so they're a bit more protected from rocks and other trail hazards.
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Unread 06-19-2015, 11:47 PM   #8
PhantomWJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post

Yj's are a little different then Tj's Xj's and Jk's Rick. All the steering linkage is above the leafsprings so they're a bit more protected from rocks and other trail hazards.
And shorter wheelbase...they get tipsy
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Unread 06-20-2015, 01:04 AM   #9
paulhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
Everyone has their own comfort level which is why trail ratings are not really of much value. Add to that how the ruts and rocks get changed over time along with driver experience, spotter experience and the amount of body damage you are willing to put up with.
Ditto.
33/35's, beefed up steering, locked in the front, acceptable scratches/damage
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Unread 06-20-2015, 06:58 AM   #10
WOKNROX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomWJ View Post
And shorter wheelbase...they get tipsy
Please till me where on JB a stock 94" wheelbase rig would get tipsy at? You'd have to be way off on the wrong path to encounter any issues like that bud.
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Unread 06-20-2015, 11:10 AM   #11
PhantomWJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post

Please till me where on JB a stock 94" wheelbase rig would get tipsy at? You'd have to be way off on the wrong path to encounter any issues like that bud.
It was a general statement, with the exception of the CJ having wheel bases in the 80's (inches), YJ/TJ have a shorter wheel base at like low or 90's or so.

In comparison to the XJ' and JK'S and in addition to the leafsprung YJ as mentioned earlier, those are some of the differences. Irregardless of trail, I'm stating they have a short wheelbase.
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Unread 06-20-2015, 05:41 PM   #12
WOKNROX
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Still make no sense...I don't see how it's useful.
But it's cool...rock on and happy father's day guy's
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Unread 06-21-2015, 11:43 PM   #13
suicideking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
Yj's are a little different then Tj's Xj's and Jk's Rick. All the steering linkage is above the leafsprings so they're a bit more protected from rocks and other trail hazards.
Seen many JK's and TJ's break or bend their tie rods on JB. Definitely would be a plus to have all of the steering more out of the reach of the rocks.
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Unread 06-24-2015, 10:03 PM   #14
thedaringmove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRC_1980
I heard from so many people on the net that people with open/open can do this with 33's. Every open rig that tried it this weekend didn't stand a chance in the world. Some people couldn't even pass Gatekeeper. Most were forced backwards to get out of the way. The select few that did make it were pulled up. We made the mistake of me going first and my two buddies didn't stand a chance. I'm glad they didn't pass gatekeeper because the next spot would have been more impossible. I don't know if the people that were getting pulled made the trail harder than normal but there's no way right now open/open can get through on 33's. After the second part it's a pretty easy trail but that second part was not what I consider easy. However, running that and then going to Gold Mountain and Heartbreak ridge made those trails seem like a cake walk.
lol my bronco roommate sent me pictures of you guys stuck on the gatekeeper. He thought it was hilarious
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Unread Yesterday, 02:17 PM   #15
BRC_1980
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I wasn't stuck. I was up the hill for three hours waiting for them to try. Group after group went through. They finally tried it. That didn't end up working at all.

For me Bull isn't hard but how people say 33's with open make it through pretty easy are full of it.

That second part on the far right line is tough tho even in mine.
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