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Unread 03-06-2012, 11:14 PM   #16
jonwood
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Seasonal closures will eventually turn into permanent closures, so I will never support them and people that do are just helping us get shut out of the woods. Look at Reiter.

And I've been going to Naches and Liberty for as long as I can remember. It's the Forrest, it'll grow back

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Unread 03-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #17
Bubblegoose1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaddAndy
I don't know how long you guys have been wheeling Naches, but in just the last 3 years, the use has increased dramatically, and has really changed trail conditions. I've been going there the last 15 years or so on bikes. Since getting the Jeep 4 years ago, I've had to increase tire size from 32s to 33s to be able to run some sections of trail which now require 35s because they're getting so rutted out. Liberty, same thing. I've witnessed groups totally destroy a section getting themselves thru to where it isn't recognizable from one day to the next. One day, our group went thru a section and the only proof we left behind that we were there we tire tracks in the snow. The next day we went up, all the little trees were gone, the grassy trail sides were all mud ruts and you couldn't even recognize where the trail was. We turned around as there was broken and stuck vehicles trying to winch out/thru. By the time 2010 was over, there were 3 sections like that there. I understand why they close them if they can't get people to Tread Lightly. The National Forests aren't an ORV park. Elbe, Tahuya, Evans are. That's where those people should stick to to have unlimited fun. Evans closes to minimise winter runoff into the river. Too bad the rule went into place before prevention could have been done instead. It was actually supposed to be closed in the winter starting 10 years ago, but the NFS let it slide until the DNR got it's way.
Absolutely agree. Well said.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 06:34 PM   #18
jayconderman
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It had been a long time since I went to Reiter but didn't they just close that one down without notice? I totally agree that eventually the government will shut all of it down. We are slowly becoming a communist country, big brother will make sure we follow their rules and we get nothing .
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Unread 03-07-2012, 06:40 PM   #19
jonwood
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Nope, it was known it was shutting down for the "winter". That was in November 09.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 10:29 PM   #20
BaddAndy
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There are, and will always be rules in every thing we do, when they are broken, there will always be dire consequences. When your kids don't obey the rules, what do you do? You restrict them or ban them. Sound familiar? I had parents that taught me that at an early age and have learned from that lesson to this day. Hmmmmmm. Not saying I'm perfect. I 've also learned how to bend a few in my time, but not to the point where I've left any evidence of it, and I feel that's the major point of Tread Lightly; Not to leave any evidence you were ever there.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 11:08 PM   #21
jayconderman
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I'm just saying that we can police our selfs just fine, we go out clean trails haul out abandoned cars etc. to many people are okay with rediculous rules set by the gov. All we do is sit on our fat assess and say okay I can do that. If a trail get so bad that no one can make it thru then that part of the trail has already put itself out of commission, there is no tread lightly, give me an F'n break. The fact that you drive in the dirt in the first place stirs up the dirt creating silt run off into the rivers when it rains, (hurting the tree huggers feelings), rivers get muddy no matter what, the damage is already done. The problem is that, like at Reiter pit, owned by to many groups, rail road ,DNR, has had to deal with vandalism to logging equipment, dumping garbage, and dead bodies, been up there twice when sheriff has a crime scene and body there. Anyways nature heals it's self, besides we can't make naturally started forest fires illegal can we
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Unread 03-07-2012, 11:15 PM   #22
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@Baddandy, glad you had parent who taught you something. You also need to realize that rules that are put into place don't necessarily need or should be there. If I don't want to wear a seat belt why do I have someone telling me I have to or I'll be fined. We are losing personal choice. As for the forest who gave it to the gov to decide what to do with it.
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Unread 03-07-2012, 11:42 PM   #23
BaddAndy
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I was trying to keep my responses directed to no one in particular, but since you seem to be aiming at me. Yes, I did have parents that taught me some things, and a career in the military taught me quite a few more. Sorry you didn't get any of that. Basically, when someone tells me these are the rules for 30 years; "Tread Lightly or we'll close it down", I basically obey so I won't lose it. I experienced plenty of closures because people didn't heed it in Southern California before moving up here 20 years ago, and am now seeing it happen here for the same reason. Before all that, I had read as a kid that that had happened out east decades ago for the same reason.
BTW, Jon and I have known each other for years. We may not see eye-to-eye all the time, but we do speak our piece peacefully.
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Unread 03-08-2012, 06:29 AM   #24
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No matter what we do, they will be closed eventually, sad!
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Unread 03-08-2012, 08:10 AM   #25
jonwood
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Which is why I will never support trail closures of any kind and believe supporting them is the wrong way to go about things.
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Unread 03-08-2012, 07:50 PM   #26
BaddAndy
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I do not support closures, but I do understand why they're being closed. I support preventing closures, not whinning about it after the fact. It's alot harder to get them reopened than it is to prevent them.
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Unread 03-08-2012, 10:40 PM   #27
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Your not the only one, but I will whine after the fact as well prevention. Its seems to be the only way to bring attention to it. Nobody believes you when you tell them whats about to happen, but then afterwords they start to accept it. I dont.
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Unread 03-12-2012, 03:05 PM   #28
141
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The biggest problem out there is that the majority of people who use the trails for Bikes, Jeeps and Quads spend their days off enjoying their toys. Tree huggers and trust fund babies with some weird complex about nature...typically spend all their time writing and lobbying politicians. We are too busy working and playing to take the time to send a couple emails and make a a couple calls. God forbid they find some animal to base their cause on. Look what the Spotted Owl B.S. did to the logging industry. Snowy Plover got a large section of Oregon Dunes shut down to even horse traffic. In the 70's there was a desert Tortoise and some lizard that had a large portion of the California desert closed to off road vehicles. Long story short... join the blue Ribbon Coalition and give them $25-50 a year if you don't want to spend the time to write a couple emails to your local politicians. If enough of us made just even a little bit more effort we would have more land available.
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Unread 03-13-2012, 10:40 PM   #29
BaddAndy
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About 7 or so years ago, all the OHV entities in WA (ATV, BIKE, 4X4, SLEDS, HORSEMEN) banded together and formed WOHVA. After a few meetings we all agreed that only those with power, ie. Club councils, Dealers, Land owners, etc. would only be board members as they would be in the best position to voice the concerns to their members , customers, users etc., then have the funds, inside knowledge and resourses to send the fight to those who were attempting to restrict us users. All's anyone has to do is go to the WOHVA website to signup to receive CLOUT alert e-mails which tell us what battles are being fought to send our wants to our legislators. WOHVA is the organization that first got Stratleline reopened, then prevented from being permanately rezoned as non-OHV. Similar battle won with Reiter.
BTW, what does 141 as your login stand for. I used to fly the C-141.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 01:25 PM   #30
141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaddAndy View Post
About 7 or so years ago, all the OHV entities in WA (ATV, BIKE, 4X4, SLEDS, HORSEMEN) banded together and formed WOHVA. After a few meetings we all agreed that only those with power, ie. Club councils, Dealers, Land owners, etc. would only be board members as they would be in the best position to voice the concerns to their members , customers, users etc., then have the funds, inside knowledge and resourses to send the fight to those who were attempting to restrict us users. All's anyone has to do is go to the WOHVA website to signup to receive CLOUT alert e-mails which tell us what battles are being fought to send our wants to our legislators. WOHVA is the organization that first got Stratleline reopened, then prevented from being permanately rezoned as non-OHV. Similar battle won with Reiter.
BTW, what does 141 as your login stand for. I used to fly the C-141.
Sounds like good organization for sure. Similiar to what the NRA does for gun owners also. I know the younger guys don't like ot get into the political side of things, but if they don't...they won't have any placs to enjoy either. The 141 stands for my old number when I raced MX. WOW! Those 141's are one seriously big piece of machinery. How much payload can they haul?
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