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WJ Dana 30 front 44 rear what gears/lockers

13K views 33 replies 12 participants last post by  texlurch 
#1 ·
Alright so from what Ive gathered the quadra drive style WJ jeeps you can or cannot run a locker in the rear 44 diff. I'm asking here really because I don't know and want to get lockers in my front and rear diffs and I suppose gears as well.

So I come to this place seemingly full of knowledge and people willing to share. Post up some explanations for me, some logic, help me understand and links for best lockers and gears you all recommend.

Thanks in advance!
 
#6 ·
You're asking us a math question, but you didn't supply any variables. :eek: Which engine do you have? What size tires are you going to use? What kind of wheeling do you do that will require lockers at both ends? (Hint: big tires, low gears, and a locker in a Dana 30 can be a waste of money if you're going to do hard core rock crawling. The same setup can last years if you're playing in he mud.) Will this be a daily driver or a trailer queen?

Answer that stuff and we'll have a lot more data to work with. :)
 
#7 ·
If you are looking to also regear to something lower (numerically higher), then that simplifies it some. The quadra drive (QD) axle shafts are specific to the quadradrive carriers and no one makes a locker that will work with those carriers or axle shafts. So you must acquire a replacement carrier and axle shafts if you want to install a locker. The replacement parts can come off of any wj with a v8 and non QD axles.

However, if you decide against regearing AND choose to not run an ARB, you can swap the entire axle to a non QD axle and go with a "lunch box" or drop in locker. The down side to this is the lowest commonly available ratio is 3.73 and the lockers will not be selectable.

I recommend starting your gear selection based off of the tire size you will run. If wj is going to get trailered everywhere, or if you don't mind being limited to 55 or so on the highway, you can go even lower. If memory serves, you will be limited to 4.88 in your front axle and probably the same in the rear axle. So to get lower than that, you will need different axle for the front and rear, if the d44a cant be geared lower than 4.88.
 
#8 ·
Kolak said:
ARB makes the air locker for the WJ D44A. If you have Quadradrive you'll also need the non-Quadradrive axle shafts. Are you also wanting to regear? What size tires are you running?
Well from what I've gathered and understand the quadra drive WJ requires the Spartan or Aussie style locker for their Dana 44 correct? Or what your saying is I can run another type(air) but I'd need to also get new axle shafts?

I'm relatively new to upgrading diffs and gears/lockers so I'm trying to learn as I go. But I think the 30 front I can pretty much do whatever? Any style locker? But don't really know pros/cons for each style. Heard manual are best but can be harder to engage, are and electric can become disabled if an air line is cut, same with the electric I'd assume. From what I can understand the manual even if I snap the cable I can still manually engage it at the case/break in the line. Of course correct me on any of this if I'm wrong.

As for my setup. Running true 6 1/2 Iroc coils and Bilstein shocks. And on 32's now but getting 35's. I'd never fit 37's from the looks of it or have major rubbing when flexed and this is going to see some rocky trails. These tires now rubbed with a 4" kit in but super soft ruff ruff country coils.
 

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#14 ·
I have 37' with IRO 6.5 critical path and after trimming the fenders and installing bump stops my rubbing problems stopped. If you are rubbing with 32 I think it's because you have not updated your bump stops...

I would not recommend you spending a dime on D30, in my case I will even ditch the D44A, weak links will just make you waste your money and have a bad time out there.

Awesome looking Wj man!

Sent from my SM-N915P using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
J_E said:
If you are looking to also regear to something lower (numerically higher), then that simplifies it some. The quadra drive (QD) axle shafts are specific to the quadradrive carriers and no one makes a locker that will work with those carriers or axle shafts. So you must acquire a replacement carrier and axle shafts if you want to install a locker. The replacement parts can come off of any wj with a v8 and non QD axles. However, if you decide against regearing AND choose to not run an ARB, you can swap the entire axle to a non QD axle and go with a "lunch box" or drop in locker. The down side to this is the lowest commonly available ratio is 3.73 and the lockers will not be selectable. I recommend starting your gear selection based off of the tire size you will run. If wj is going to get trailered everywhere, or if you don't mind being limited to 55 or so on the highway, you can go even lower. If memory serves, you will be limited to 4.88 in your front axle and probably the same in the rear axle. So to get lower than that, you will need different axle for the front and rear, if the d44a cant be geared lower than 4.88.
I'd love to find a 44 for the front but don't know where to begin or what costs would look like. Anyone know? And why the hell did the Grand even come with a little Dana 40 anyways? I'd love to do 1 tons but the budget says otherwise. If the price is right I'd love to get a 44 in the front, lockers and gears for pretty moderate crawling. Nothing crazy... yet.
 
#10 ·
Your WJ looks good!

From what I've found looking around, the JK unlimited 44's are 65" wide vs ours at 62.5". That would make d44's possible with some fab, but that extra width may affect tire fit.

I would not recommend tons unless you were going with at least a 37 or 40" tire. The pumpkins on them are so large that you actually lose ground clearance if you don't run the larger tires.

There ate three basic types of lockers. Limited slip, which is a typically a clutch based "locker". Auto lockers, such as Aussie or Spartan. Selectable lockers, such as ARB.

Your Quadrdrive system has the limited slip 'lockers'. To upgrade to anything else you will need to basically replace all of the internals in your axle housings. You will need axle shafts from a non-QD axle. If you want to run a drop in (auto) locker, you will also need the carrier from a non QD axle. I have not yet seen any drop in lockers for the QD carrier for either the D44a or the D30.

The only selectable locker that I know of for the D44a is ARB's air locker. The carrier for the d44a is specific to the d44a, so a traditional d44 carrier or locker will not work. Which sucks because it limits our options for lockers.
 
#11 ·
Since it seems that you're planning to rock crawl with 35's, I'm going to suggest that you save yourself a lot of money in the long run and just start with better/stronger axles. I seen lots of people drop a ton of cash into trying to make what they already have do the job. Then they start breaking expensive parts and end up starting over with what they should have used in the first place. :( Yes, you can start with saying "I'll just take it easy, so I don't break anything", but it just takes a single throttle-happy moment to make things go bang when playing on the rocks. There's a reason that you don't see tons of WJ's on the hardcore trails. It either takes a lot of time and money to get them to that level and be able to survive being pounded every weekend, or you miss lots of weekends fixing the stuff that broke the last time out.

In the end, you have to seriously think about what your plans are for the rig. We don't know where you live/wheel, so we don't know what your definition of "rocky trails" is.

To some people, the first pic is a rocky trail.

While others think the last two pics are rocky trails.

If you plan to wheel the second type of trails, you could be bringing a knife to a gun fight. ;)
 

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#12 ·
First off, WJ lookin' sick..

Basically what everyone said above ^^^^

I just sold my built XJ to buy my currant WJ that I'm building.

Everything depends on 1) What kind of trails / rocks you'll be running 2) budget, 3) tire size (worth investing in existing axles, or do axle swaps) will you DD the WJ, etc.

If you can afford them, I loved my ARB's (front / rear) in my 01 XJ. Some people have issues with the air lines, but it really isn't an issue at all. You can buy a patch kit & keep it with you. I had the lunchbox lockers in my TJ & personally hated it (for a DD), but they were cheap.

If you want to keep your speedo and other luxuries that our WJ's have you need to stick with WJ type axles as everything works off our ABS tone rings. In saying that, if you have deep pockets & want turn key axles, you can look into axles from ECGS they have JK 44's (front/rear) & D60's, etc that are set to work with our WJ's.

ECGS: ==>> http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/c-283495-complete-axle-assemblies-jeep-jeep-wj.html


Lockers: Lunchbox (Aussi/Spartin/Lock Rite), Fullcast Lockers: Air (ARB / Yukon Zip Lockers), Detroit (non selectable), Cable OX, etc. (when pricing up my lockers for my XJ, the OX with all the addons ended up being more expensive than the ARB)

The D30's really max out @ 35" tires. People do run 37's and have success, but some guys run 35's on D35's and haven't broken any axles shafts. Me, I snapped my D35 in my TJ on 31's..... I ran 35" GY MTR's on my XJ (HPD30 up front & Crys 8.25 in rear) and I could feel the difference gong from my 33's.

Don't know if I helped, but at least some food for thought. I don't hit trails with Rocks here in WNY & am staying with 33's on my WJ. I'll keep my D30 & lock it with either a Zip Locker or ARB & am thinking of getting the JK44 with an ARB for the rear.
 
#13 ·
caronaxtr2 said:
First off, WJ lookin' sick.. Basically what everyone said above ^^^^ I just sold my built XJ to buy my currant WJ that I'm building. Everything depends on 1) What kind of trails / rocks you'll be running 2) budget, 3) tire size (worth investing in existing axles, or do axle swaps) will you DD the WJ, etc. If you can afford them, I loved my ARB's (front / rear) in my 01 XJ. Some people have issues with the air lines, but it really isn't an issue at all. You can buy a patch kit & keep it with you. I had the lunchbox lockers in my TJ & personally hated it (for a DD), but they were cheap. If you want to keep your speedo and other luxuries that our WJ's have you need to stick with WJ type axles as everything works off our ABS tone rings. In saying that, if you have deep pockets & want turn key axles, you can look into axles from ECGS they have JK 44's (front/rear) & D60's, etc that are set to work with our WJ's. ECGS: ==>> http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/c-283495-complete-axle-assemblies-jeep-jeep-wj.html http://s577.photobucket.com/user/caronaxtr/media/WJ Build/ECGS_zpsis2slr2r.jpg.html Lockers: Lunchbox (Aussi/Spartin/Lock Rite), Fullcast Lockers: Air (ARB / Yukon Zip Lockers), Detroit (non selectable), Cable OX, etc. (when pricing up my lockers for my XJ, the OX with all the addons ended up being more expensive than the ARB) The D30's really max out @ 35" tires. People do run 37's and have success, but some guys run 35's on D35's and haven't broken any axles shafts. Me, I snapped my D35 in my TJ on 31's..... I ran 35" GY MTR's on my XJ (HPD30 up front & Crys 8.25 in rear) and I could feel the difference gong from my 33's. Don't know if I helped, but at least some food for thought. I don't hit trails with Rocks here in WNY & am staying with 33's on my WJ. I'll keep my D30 & lock it with either a Zip Locker or ARB & am thinking of getting the JK44 with an ARB for the rear.
I appreciate all the responses! **** to be honest if I could swing it I'd order from the east coast site! That's badass if I could just order a built axle. But if I can save myself on costs and source the 44 out of a JK and fab/modify it myself I could get myself pretty much the same setup. What I don't understand is how is the Dana 60 front cheaper then the damn Dana 44?! That makes no sense. I'd almost opt for that and go 37's all day!

As stated above I don't want to build something under par and be breaking things. I'm the type who'd rather over build and never have any issues. Rocky trail runs out here are pretty gnarly. A bunch of friends were out at the Chile Challenge this past week. But most trails down here in the southwest(located in El Paso) that I'd want to take it out on are big boulder kind of trails. Not dirt road "rocky". Hahaha

So I suppose I have some options to weigh and see what I can afford and get this thing back on the road. It's been down long enough...

I've got about $1000 right now I can use towards the Jeep. But don't know what's next. But really don't want to put money into the 30 and end up breaking it anyways... some say the 30 is sufficient and others I've spoken to make it sound like it'll snap like a twig. I'd rather save and build it right the first time... Jeep has just been on and off stands in the shop for a few months now.
 
#15 ·
rdanield said:
I have 37' with IRO 6.5 critical path and after trimming the fenders and installing bump stops my rubbing problems stopped. If you are rubbing with 32 I think it's because you have not updated your bump stops... I would not recommend you spending a dime on D30, in my case I will even ditch the D44A, weak links will just make you waste your money and have a bad time out there. Awesome looking Wj man! Sent from my SM-N915P using Tapatalk
Ran the bump stop extensions that came with the last kit and rubbed with the 32's it's sitting on. Fenders are cut. Relocating the washer fluid reservoir as well. Already have the kit I bought to do it up inside the fender. But we'll see how it's looking with the new kit in it before I decide on 35's or 37's but axles will obviously be a deciding factor as well. Half the time I'm told run the 30 and build a 44 to replace it. Other times I'm told, like you said, to upgrade. But were you saying the 44 isn't even worth it?
 
#16 ·
Btw... I will not get my axles from no company I will get them both from a junk yard both from the same vehicle so I dont have to deal with gear differences... this way will requiere mods but you'll have to do them anyways.

You cant expect to find a JK on a junk yard but there's a million options out there, give it a try and you might not need much more than what your budget is right now if you do it yourself... of course without the aftermarket lockers

Sent from my SM-N915P using Tapatalk
 
#17 ·
Do yourself a favor and forget the JK as a donor. If you're going to spend the time and money, why choose the JK44?

Also, search pirate and to a lesser extent mallcrawlin for some sound advice on axles if you really want to build your wj. Read enough threads on this forum and you'll believe the LPD30 and D44A are damn near indestructible.

Enjoy your build.
 
#18 ·
skain8 said:
Do yourself a favor and forget the JK as a donor. If you're going to spend the time and money, why choose the JK44? Also, search pirate and to a lesser extent mallcrawlin for some sound advice on axles if you really want to build your wj. Read enough threads on this forum and you'll believe the LPD30 and D44A are damn near indestructible. Enjoy your build.
What axles would you be looking for if it were your choice? I don't be any means think either the 30 or 44 are indestructible. But trying to educate and make the best decision based off that. I'd like a pretty solid rig here to do some moderate trails and crawling with. And have no interest in being that guy who always breaks when we're out or always replacing axle shafts or what have you afterna weekend out wheelin.
 
#19 ·
OlebustedDubJ said:
What axles would you be looking for if it were your choice? I don't be any means think either the 30 or 44 are indestructible. But trying to educate and make the best decision based off that. I'd like a pretty solid rig here to do some moderate trails and crawling with. And have no interest in being that guy who always breaks when we're out or always replacing axle shafts or what have you afterna weekend out wheelin.
Alright then...

Since my last I've been "educated further and been told the 44 out of the old wagoneer, that had the wife track or wider axle is what I should be looking for. Nice strong axle/platform so I'm there or 60's. Whatever I can source and truss/kit and get under the Jeep and get this thing buttoned up and rolling! I want to get out on the trails already! Seems I've taken a step forward and two steps back and was just going to run the 30, but was so hesitant to order the sleeve and truss I never pulled the trigger. I don't want to build some bull that'll break anyways and have all sorts of money into gears and locker into a 30 and it breaks anyways. So going to try and get it done right the first time around!
 
#21 ·
I built my low pinion Dana30- sleeves, truss, c gusset, chromolly shafts, eaton electronic locker, Stock 3.73 gears. I am only running 32" tires on 3" lift but have plans one day to run 35's on a 6" lift. If you truly plan to rock crawl with the WJ and are on a budget, without fabrication skills, you really should just sell the WJ and buy a built YJ or XJ for $8k on 35s. They make kits to swap the rear to an 8.8, you could likely use the same kit for a Dana 60 or Dana 44 rear, but you would need welders and fabrication skills. You are kind of in between a rock and a hard place with the WJ. Like everyone says, whatever you do if you do plan on something for the long run, save up and spend the money to do it right the first time.
 
#31 ·
I have been running the d30 in front with chromally axels, 4.54 gears and an Eaton E-locker with the d44a in the rear and 35"tires. So far this set up works great with a 4" lift. I go real easy on the skinny petal and with only a 4" lift I can do up to a 3.5 trail. The gears help a lot with keeping the skinny petal to a minimum so I don't over rev and break. I know this set up would be subject to breakage on a trail rated above 3.5.
 
#22 ·
gtg413i said:
I built my low pinion Dana30- sleeves, truss, c gusset, chromolly shafts, eaton electronic locker, Stock 3.73 gears. I am only running 32" tires on 3" lift but have plans one day to run 35's on a 6" lift. If you truly plan to rock crawl with the WJ and are on a budget, without fabrication skills, you really should just sell the WJ and buy a built YJ or XJ for $8k on 35s. They make kits to swap the rear to an 8.8, you could likely use the same kit for a Dana 60 or Dana 44 rear, but you would need welders and fabrication skills. You are kind of in between a rock and a hard place with the WJ. Like everyone says, whatever you do if you do plan on something for the long run, save up and spend the money to do it right the first time.
I'm actually a welder and fabricator by trade. Which is actually why I'm building the Dub J. Everyone has an XJ, YJ or some variant that they wheel. I wanted to build something badass, and unique. Funds continue to come in, just wanted to see where I could get with $1000-2000 right now. Not in a rush, but I'd like to be done this year! Haha
 
#23 ·
Pretty much my same reason... plus I wanted room to do overnight trips and carry all my crap not hanging all over the outside.
 
#24 ·
Without knowing what is in your axles, it's hard to give more details on what to do with $2k. If you do want to rock crawl on 35's and really want reliability of stronger running gear, I suggest swapping in a front junkyard dana44 and building a rear 8.8 junkyard axle with welded the gears. If you DIY swapping axles you will likely lose ABS and probably the vss which are from the tone rings on the front axle shafts. You can add vss to the transfer case, which most would also suggest beefing up to a 242hd. Here is a kit for the rear swap http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/11307.html

It is about $1k cheaper to build the existing Dana30 than to buy a built one from ECGS. Many have beat on a built dana30 with 35" tires. Many have broken a built dana 30 on 35s. Many have broken a built dana 44's on 35" tires.

You can read more here http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?161502-WJ-front-axle-swap-options

I think you should be looking to more the $5k range on the low side. Being unique with a rock crawlin WJ costs more money than most jeeps.
 
#25 ·
gtg413i said:
Without knowing what is in your axles, it's hard to give more details on what to do with $2k. If you do want to rock crawl on 35's and really want reliability of stronger running gear, I suggest swapping in a front junkyard dana44 and building a rear 8.8 junkyard axle with welded the gears. If you DIY swapping axles you will likely lose ABS and probably the vss which are from the tone rings on the front axle shafts. You can add vss to the transfer case, which most would also suggest beefing up to a 242hd. Here is a kit for the rear swap http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/11307.html It is about $1k cheaper to build the existing Dana30 than to buy a built one from ECGS. Many have beat on a built dana30 with 35" tires. Many have broken a built dana 30 on 35s. Many have broken a built dana 44's on 35" tires. You can read more here http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?161502-WJ-front-axle-swap-options I think you should be looking to more the $5k range on the low side. Being unique with a rock crawlin WJ costs more money than most jeeps.
Great reads in that thread. Learned quite a bit actually. Seems the more I learn, the more options that open up. I think I may just opt to sleeve and truss the 30 I have now and build axles to go into this thing when these are spent. Not to waist money but I'd like to get out and do some wheeling and events with the new setup. I'd started this build to wheel and do events to show off the shop work and our custom Fab work. So I think in that interest I'll look to do that. Save a little now and build tons for this thing to really upgrade it when these axles are smoked...
 
#28 ·
skain8 said:
If your goal is to build a stout axle on stands while you wheel your D30, there really is no reason to spend any money on the D30 in the meantime. Forget the trussing/sleeving and just carry spare shafts. Again, ultimately, I'd go 60's or a HP44/9 like I did.
That's the plan. But figure a truss is $100 or so for the 30 and will give me a little more life out of the 30 while I build 60's. Or some variance. Prob do the 60 front 14bolt rear.
 
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