Why the hate? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 03:37 AM Thread Starter
Frambo
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Thumbs up Why the hate?

I think we sometimes give our WJs too much of a bad reputation for not being the most reliable of vehicles... I have to say I'm seriously impressed with mine!

I've just gotten back from a 3 night road trip around Europe.

1400 miles
6 countries
High temperatures
130 MPH on the unrestricted autobahns
Off-road in the Ardennes forest and along the Rhine Valley.

Comfortable, reliable and a pleasure / fun to drive the entire time. Only saw one other Grand, a 2012 SRT with the 6.4 and he was as pleased to see me as I was to see him. Turns out the Jeep wave is an international thing! Nothing cropped up during the journey except the brake pads finally got worn down as a result of lots of 100mph + braking (EBC Yellow-stuff pads, would thoroughly recommend).

Should be noted I absolutely baby my HO, oil changes every 3,000 miles and I fix any issues as they arise.

Here she is, on the edges of the Rhine Valley! All the normal cars and busses were down by the river but we got the view from above!

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post #2 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 05:03 AM
wjjeep19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frambo View Post
I think we sometimes give our WJs too much of a bad reputation for not being the most reliable of vehicles... I have to say I'm seriously impressed with mine!

I've just gotten back from a 3 night road trip around Europe.

1400 miles
6 countries
High temperatures
130 MPH on the unrestricted autobahns
Off-road in the Ardennes forest and along the Rhine Valley.

Comfortable, reliable and a pleasure / fun to drive the entire time. Only saw one other Grand, a 2012 SRT with the 6.4 and he was as pleased to see me as I was to see him. Turns out the Jeep wave is an international thing! Nothing cropped up during the journey except the brake pads finally got worn down as a result of lots of 100mph + braking (EBC Yellow-stuff pads, would thoroughly recommend).

Should be noted I absolutely baby my HO, oil changes every 3,000 miles and I fix any issues as they arise.

Here she is, on the edges of the Rhine Valley! All the normal cars and busses were down by the river but we got the view from above!
It's not so much the WJ but Chrysler in general. Chrysler has for awhile scored average and below average in reliability ratings.

You do realize 3k miles is for severe driving conditions, right?

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post #3 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 06:24 AM
Double E
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(I would submit that he's well within in the severe driving category.)

You do make good points about the reliability issues observed and posted here.
Remember that the forum is a place where many of us come to resolve issues, hence there will be frustrations. Not as many of us are meticulous about staying on top of things like Frambo is.
Generally, staying on top of things that are mechanical is the best way to keep issues from becoming problems. I think Frambo subscribes to that.
That's a lesson some people never seem to fully grasp due to comprehension or motivation or a myriad of personality traits.
I have 2 WJs now. One at 60K miles and the other about to turn 90K. My first WJ went to 225K and is still out there somewhere with the new owner, probably still running strong.

They've all had issues. None have had problems ...thanks to this forum and the folks that help each other in it.
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post #4 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 07:37 AM
MWF
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I've been meaning to make a post like this and applaud Frambo for doing so, especially since he actually cares for his WJ.

I bought my WJ with 160K miles on the clock 6.5 years ago and treat it like crap. It's soldiered for another 30K with barely any issues. I've driven it with the radiator leaking and the fan not working. I've driven it so low on oil it's started knocking. I've never replaced a spark plug and I even have a K&N filter .

I am everything that's wrong about bad ownership yet it keeps on keeping on.

Do I feel guilty? Absolutely, but I've treated cars like faberge eggs in the past only to get my fingers burnt. I'm hoping to pour some love back into my WJ this summer because by golly it's earned it.
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post #5 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 08:03 AM
Jeeples
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The newest WJ is 13 years old, the oldest being 18 years.

Things break/fail over time, and it's not just high miles that will wear parts out, sitting for long periods of time will cause seals to dry out and start leaking, plastic gets brittle and dried out if exposed to extreme temps, etc.

I get a kick out of some of the folks that complain about the lack of 'modern' amenities, as if the WJ just stopped production yesterday. Auto climate control, auto dim mirrors, bluetooth calling (on later models), NAV, adjustable pedal position and TPMS were all available on WJ's, even standard on some trim levels. Compare that to other SUV offerings in that year and price range and you'll be surprised at what was offered on vehicles 'back then'.
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Quote:
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It is what Jeeples has *PARTIALLY* stated.
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post #6 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 08:06 AM
wjjeep19
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I don't really recall anyone _hating_ the WJ so I think a little exaggeration there as well. If I was someone who hated my vehicle, I certainly wouldn't waste my time on a forum like this. I'd be more inclined to get rid of it.
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post #7 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 08:23 AM
azzkicker
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As pointed out above, you get a false sense of statistics if you take online posts as average experiences. You have to poll owners across the board, or find out repairs versus number of registered vehicles and then weigh that with miles driven.

People rarely get on a forum to mention that nothing happened today. They only post about it if there's a problem, or if they are surprised by how good something worked. Either end of that is not average.

When you do have a problem, especially if it's right on the heels of another issue, you get ticked off and complain loudly to anybody you can. You also get on the forum for advice (not just venting), and that brings up other people noting they had the same problem last whatever (which they posted last whatever, so here's the second time you'll count one event in your sense of frequency). That's human nature, and that's what I do.

Having said that, it wouldn't shock me to find out Jeeps are not beating toyota Camrys and F-150s for reliability. As I work on my jeep, the materials and craftsmanship, including careful wire management, are not at the same quality of my Fords or previous Toyotas. At the same time, I'm surprised by how many features Jeep puts on for how low of a price. That probably means some cost savings are at the expense of reliability.
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post #8 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 09:26 AM
blueseasons1
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It's "love" "hate" relationship. I love my WJ when it runs and I hate it when it breaks down. I am 67 and I have had many vehicles. Only 1 in my life was brand new. Most were many years old and had many miles on them when I bought them. None had the built in problems this Jeep has. From bad brake calipers, dropped valve seats, exploding piston skirts, weak heads, water leaks, funky PCMs. You name it. My other vehicle is 88 chevy Pickup that I have owned for 7 years. I have had my Jeep for 4. Hands down the Chevy is the much better vehicle even at twice the age of the Jeep. .
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post #9 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 10:06 AM
BDW
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I agree, we don't hate them or we wouldn't be here. I have spent a lot of money restoring mine because it's exactly what I wanted. But that doesn't mean rose colored glasses. I've had many cars and trucks new and used in my life, and the Chrysler products were some of my favorites. And, as a rule, the least reliable. Every Chrysler I bought new had warranty repairs, that's seven new 4x4's if I'm counting correctly, most recently 2014. Ford, GM, Nissan, Toyota as a general rule never go back to the dealer between the day we buy one and it gets traded back in.

And to repeat, I do like Mopar, and I'll probably buy them again!
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post #10 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 05:58 PM
HarryH3
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Like blueseasons1, I have all my other old junk to compare the WJ to, and well, the WJ comes up way short. Compared to my '94 4WD Suburban, that I've owned since 1998 and has 195K miles on the clock, the '01 WJ with a measly 136K miles on the clock has needed FAR more attention in the 2 years it's been here. It's a total joke in reliability when compared to my '05 Honda Accord with 186K miles. All I've done to that in 12 years is tires, brake pads, a $1 o-ring where the power steering suction hose attaches to the pump, an alternator, 1 oxygen sensor and 1 CV shaft. My '91 GMC 4WD S-Jimmy was purchased new, has been wheeled all over Colorado, driven like it was stolen and has over 200K miles on it. Reliable as a rock. Plus, I never have to wonder if any of them are going to self-destruct due to some engineering schmuck not specifying the proper interference fit for valve seats and I don't have to deal with a plethora of suspension bushings to keep them driving in a straight line.


Selling any vehicle and replacing it is something I don't relish, but I don't expect to ever buy another Chrysler/Jeep vehicle once this one is gone. I like driving old junk that's cheap and fairly easy to work on. Turns out that the WJ was only cheap to buy.
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post #11 of 68 Old 07-21-2017, 11:08 PM
gtg413i
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I'm a hater. I've owned an XJ and currently have a WJ and YJ and my girlfriend has a 300c. I can't tell whether I love to hate it or hate to love it. Unfortunately, I think it's the latter. I would love to meet one of the Chrysler interns that designed my WJ.

I happened to buy a 2003 Overland with 32k miles on it in brilliant black pearl that I'm married to now. I immediately had to do the blend door repair, which later broke and I still get climate control errors today. blower control connector repair, passenger & driver window regulator, the dern clips didn't go back in so it looked bad for a couple years until I glued them good, replaced hi pressure hose for steering fluid which is a known issue, driver door electrical connector failure which is another known issue, 2 cracked radiators at the plastic neck failed, engine failed so replaced that (no clue why as my friend was driving, but I suspect bad oil pickup which is an issue on the 4.7), o2 sensor, bent 2 front axles (kind of both my fault for driving in the sand dunes), snapped a factory axle shift (my fault), chased death wobble for a while on a 3" IRO lift and I feel it coming back now, replaced a bunch of rubber pieces like for center console which is more annoying, replaced heater core hoses due to weeping at the wonderfully designed metal / rubber connector, replaced battery terminals, replaced rear hatch struts and they need to be replaced again, replaced hydraulic fan, which is supposed to be an improved design over electric (at least I lucked out and found a used one from an 04, but had to pay a dealer since it broke going to a festival), need to replace driver seat cushion and fix the cracked seat mounts, I should replace the rear door rubber seals since they have a big gap in one corner, but they don't seem to leak and those seals are expensive, the rear door doesn't shut right (pretty sure because I opened it when the WJ was flexed out), replaced knock sensors (I think the people who replaced the engine switched left and right), my windshield wiper sprayers sometimes don't work- can't figure that out yet, replaced 2 brake pedal sensors, belt and belt tensioner that was with a bad bearing, one stayed on keeping the bulb on, the other one didn't let the cruise control work, replaced cracked cruise control hoses and other intake hoses on the back of the engine, had to worm clamp the brake vacuum since it isn't very long and came off one day wheeling, 1 TPMS replaced and currently have an error that one is bad or missing. For the 300C, it had a bad roll over valve that would shut the engine off while driving, but I've only been around the 300c for a few months. Those are just the things I can remember off the top of my head without discussing routine maintenance and please don't get me started on the XJ & YJ. I could write a book.

Sorry for the rant. I love seeing WJ's on the trail and I honestly think most of the WJ repairs are typical for any WJ owner, which ain't right.

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post #12 of 68 Old 07-22-2017, 01:06 AM
sdg3205
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I was thinking about this tonight actually. I think I average one night a week under my Jeep. Tonight i was fixing a glazed rotor and pad that was squeaking so loudly people turned to see what was coming towards them before i even passed them on the street. Earlier this week it was the front control arms, last week it was the rear control arms, last month it was the parking brakes (they still suck), the month before that it was rust, the month before that i fixed a stuck power seat and another leaking axle seal, earlier in 2017 i rebuilt the engine. Later this month I'll have to replace the fuel tank skid plate. The work is constant and like i say, i think the average is 4 days a month (one day a week) working on things that pop up weekly. The saving grace is i enjoy it, but it's a bit much when you work, be a father and have to get it done after 10pm. Every time I think I'm set for the rest of the year, something else fails, starts to leak, breaks off, gets stuck or rusts out. The reality to me is that these are old, well used, averagely-engineered, pre-bailout vehicles at best and it shows. My 36 year old DeLorean is more reliable and parts are cheaper, what does that tell you?!

I hate it. I love it. It's a Jeep thing.
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post #13 of 68 Old 07-22-2017, 05:44 AM
Twizter68
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Aside from correcting some issues it had from the previous owner (and the half assed Bangladeshi mechanics around here), mine has been trouble free since I bought it. Conditions tend to the extreme in the Middle East; frequent dust/sand storms, extreme heat (we passed 100F in May, average the last couple months has been 115), and really crappy road conditions...I've no complaints about mine.
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post #14 of 68 Old 07-22-2017, 07:21 PM
WJeepster
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Frambo, how was off-roading in the Ardennes forest?

2001 WJ, 4.0, 242TC, tow, 89K, rust bubbles on fenders
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post #15 of 68 Old 07-22-2017, 08:21 PM
gtg413i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg3205 View Post
I was thinking about this tonight actually. I think I average one night a week under my Jeep. Tonight i was fixing a glazed rotor and pad that was squeaking so loudly people turned to see what was coming towards them before i even passed them on the street. Earlier this week it was the front control arms, last week it was the rear control arms, last month it was the parking brakes (they still suck), the month before that it was rust, the month before that i fixed a stuck power seat and another leaking axle seal, earlier in 2017 i rebuilt the engine. Later this month I'll have to replace the fuel tank skid plate. The work is constant and like i say, i think the average is 4 days a month (one day a week) working on things that pop up weekly. The saving grace is i enjoy it, but it's a bit much when you work, be a father and have to get it done after 10pm. Every time I think I'm set for the rest of the year, something else fails, starts to leak, breaks off, gets stuck or rusts out. The reality to me is that these are old, well used, averagely-engineered, pre-bailout vehicles at best and it shows. My 36 year old DeLorean is more reliable and parts are cheaper, what does that tell you?!

I hate it. I love it. It's a Jeep thing.
Talking yesterday about all those repairs over the years must have gotten to me. I honestly had a dream last night that the WJ's engine failed. I thought to myself in the dream... well, I know that would happen it's time to move on. When I woke up, I was very happy to know it was just a dream, so today I bought her a new license plate from the DMV- BLACKWJ
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